Airline abuse from Military guys
09-19-2006, 05:16 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Pure flamebait but could well have been written by some mgt types...so I'll bite...
Well...as a cush job owner I can tell you about some of the Christmas/T-Day reasons.
If you are an ATC IP or in an FTU, you know you are working long ass days and in some cased guys cannot go home over the holidays due to manning issues. So--guess what--local base commander/wing commander says to his associate unit commander "hey...can you guys (the part timers) STEP UP a bit here so my regular guys can actually take a bit of leave over the holidays and visit their families? They've been busting butt for months, but we are still behind the timeline..."
Also--we all worship the guy behind the M-16 or the F-18, but it takes a LOT of support people to train, equip, and manage those folks. I'm sorry if one of those "less worthy" types (in your eyes) has to come in and work and get you called off reserve (instead of staying at home...), but that's just the way it works.
Why do we even have reserves/ANG? The fact is, they are cost effective warriors. The goverment gets a full up round with just a phone call, and can active them on a whim. The cost is much cheaper as there is no pension (A fund!) for part timers until they are 60, and then it is a greatly reduced rate (B-scale retirement, if you will...) At the same time--look at what MY company gets from the Feds...a billion dollar a year mail contract, a new CRAF contract, plus the whole ATC system and airway structure paid for by tax dollars. What do they ask in return? When we (the Government) ask our boys to come do their other job, don't take their jobs away or ruin their seniority for doing something that benefits everyone. We are cheap labor, and a good investment for the nation.
And if us doing 2 or more jobs means your life on reserve as an AA captain is a bit tougher, then I say suck it up. Or quit. But in the meantime, enjoy the benefits of a system that you apparently don't think has a cost.
Well...as a cush job owner I can tell you about some of the Christmas/T-Day reasons.
If you are an ATC IP or in an FTU, you know you are working long ass days and in some cased guys cannot go home over the holidays due to manning issues. So--guess what--local base commander/wing commander says to his associate unit commander "hey...can you guys (the part timers) STEP UP a bit here so my regular guys can actually take a bit of leave over the holidays and visit their families? They've been busting butt for months, but we are still behind the timeline..."
Also--we all worship the guy behind the M-16 or the F-18, but it takes a LOT of support people to train, equip, and manage those folks. I'm sorry if one of those "less worthy" types (in your eyes) has to come in and work and get you called off reserve (instead of staying at home...), but that's just the way it works.
Why do we even have reserves/ANG? The fact is, they are cost effective warriors. The goverment gets a full up round with just a phone call, and can active them on a whim. The cost is much cheaper as there is no pension (A fund!) for part timers until they are 60, and then it is a greatly reduced rate (B-scale retirement, if you will...) At the same time--look at what MY company gets from the Feds...a billion dollar a year mail contract, a new CRAF contract, plus the whole ATC system and airway structure paid for by tax dollars. What do they ask in return? When we (the Government) ask our boys to come do their other job, don't take their jobs away or ruin their seniority for doing something that benefits everyone. We are cheap labor, and a good investment for the nation.
And if us doing 2 or more jobs means your life on reserve as an AA captain is a bit tougher, then I say suck it up. Or quit. But in the meantime, enjoy the benefits of a system that you apparently don't think has a cost.
Last edited by Albief15; 09-19-2006 at 05:18 PM.
09-19-2006, 05:16 PM
#23
MD-11 first officer
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: MD-11 slug
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by B757200ER
I think this thread is kind of insulting, to say the least. Maybe the originator of this thread should DELETE it, so that no more insults are handed out.
09-19-2006, 06:57 PM
#24
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 135 Instructor
Posts: 5
Stupid question, but what is a "bad trip" in the civilian world? To me, it's 60+ days in a tent with 120+ degree heat and all the sand that one could ever hope to see. That done 4 times a year is what I consider to be a "bad trip". Is life really that bad in the civilian sector? 
09-19-2006, 07:01 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FDX A300 CPT
Posts: 967
who cares...they must be doing something important whether it is behind a desk or a yoke...the military wouldn't take me for my 20/30 vision..so now all the guys they did take r pouring my coffee..............I kid I kid..hehehe
09-19-2006, 07:22 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 183
av84aa
How have the mil guys hurt you?
How have they changed your life for the negative?
The furloughed mil guys are doing every civilian pilot below them a favor...you get to keep a job!
What is your problem?
When I take mil leave from FedEx, I take a pay cut. Does AA pay suck that bad that mil guys have an incentive to drop??
What have you done for your country in the volunteer arena?
What burns you up more...guys dropping trips to stay current on the F-16 or guys dropping for a good deal union business trip?
Hey Sasquatch...what do you fly and when were you hired? I'm assuming your a civie?
How have they changed your life for the negative?
The furloughed mil guys are doing every civilian pilot below them a favor...you get to keep a job!
What is your problem?
When I take mil leave from FedEx, I take a pay cut. Does AA pay suck that bad that mil guys have an incentive to drop??
What have you done for your country in the volunteer arena?
What burns you up more...guys dropping trips to stay current on the F-16 or guys dropping for a good deal union business trip?
Hey Sasquatch...what do you fly and when were you hired? I'm assuming your a civie?
09-19-2006, 07:31 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 FO FDX, C130 ANG
Posts: 538
Wacked!
"75% of the guys are abusing the system" I think that's a little scewed AV8R.
The fact is that 75% of us have spent many months in the sand box on Involuntary Orders, and we spend many nights away from home in addition to our Airline jobs including Night Low Level NVG locals at 21:00 when we just got home from a trip. A normal month for me is about 5-6 days off completely from either the Airline or the Guard.
It's not all cushy as you would love to believe. Yeah I still do it because it's a part of who I am now, and I love the guys I fly with. I can't imagine the unit going to Iraq/Afghanistan without me so I choose to stay proficient/current/qualified at both jobs. That means that I have to take mil leave now and then for normal flying and other ground duties.
Another fact is that the Military is a great hedge for this profession so guys don't blink an eye at staying in the game at the unit. Your employer would kick you to the kurb if they had to in a heart beat, without an inckling of how many additional days you spent flying for military guys who had leave. Where's the loyalty from them? If they need more pilots get them to recall them! Mil leave isn't hurting anyone, it's helping if anything. Your beef should be with AA managment for not recalling enough pilots.
The fact is that 75% of us have spent many months in the sand box on Involuntary Orders, and we spend many nights away from home in addition to our Airline jobs including Night Low Level NVG locals at 21:00 when we just got home from a trip. A normal month for me is about 5-6 days off completely from either the Airline or the Guard.
It's not all cushy as you would love to believe. Yeah I still do it because it's a part of who I am now, and I love the guys I fly with. I can't imagine the unit going to Iraq/Afghanistan without me so I choose to stay proficient/current/qualified at both jobs. That means that I have to take mil leave now and then for normal flying and other ground duties.
Another fact is that the Military is a great hedge for this profession so guys don't blink an eye at staying in the game at the unit. Your employer would kick you to the kurb if they had to in a heart beat, without an inckling of how many additional days you spent flying for military guys who had leave. Where's the loyalty from them? If they need more pilots get them to recall them! Mil leave isn't hurting anyone, it's helping if anything. Your beef should be with AA managment for not recalling enough pilots.
09-19-2006, 08:36 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Bidding Time Off
Posts: 169
Dude,
I met a guy who said his job was "just to drive the trucks on base". What a deal as many of you will say. This guys is just slackin' and "my" job is much more important. The flip side of this is he just got back from one year of convoy duty and kicking down doors in Iraq. This is the FRONTLINE. I felt bad having him drive me to my jet--I felt I should drive him out of a true feeling of respect!!!!!!!
Fish Alaska
p.s. All of the guys complaining about mil leave are welcome to go to Iraq. Oh--I can't due to>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I met a guy who said his job was "just to drive the trucks on base". What a deal as many of you will say. This guys is just slackin' and "my" job is much more important. The flip side of this is he just got back from one year of convoy duty and kicking down doors in Iraq. This is the FRONTLINE. I felt bad having him drive me to my jet--I felt I should drive him out of a true feeling of respect!!!!!!!
Fish Alaska
p.s. All of the guys complaining about mil leave are welcome to go to Iraq. Oh--I can't due to>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
09-19-2006, 08:47 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Bidding Time Off
Posts: 169
I forgot--Unless you have picked up a gun or raised your right hand to allow some other dude's wife to sleep at night.....You have no voice in just about anything dealing with just about anything. In this world--we have those who are willing and those who have an excuse. Step up to the plate or SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fish
P.S. This is not a slam on civilian guys since I did a lot of time on this side, but I am sick of someone saying that since I serve my country and this inconveniences someone else they are mad.
EITHER GO TO THE DESERT OR SHUT UP******The freedom you enjoy is given by those who have served (now and in the past which you tend to forget)
Fish
P.S. This is not a slam on civilian guys since I did a lot of time on this side, but I am sick of someone saying that since I serve my country and this inconveniences someone else they are mad.
EITHER GO TO THE DESERT OR SHUT UP******The freedom you enjoy is given by those who have served (now and in the past which you tend to forget)
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