Which all goes to my point. I've NEVER seen a Frontier pilot do that. A couple of months back, I had a choice between losing pay by calling in fatigued, or bumping a passenger so I could sleep on the deadhead.

I think the issue you have is RAH crews refusing to sit in the jumpseat while positive spaced?
I know you guys do it but we are contractually required to have a passenger seat for crew movements. Generally this is the standard for most carriers. We consider the jumpseat a resource for commuting pilots not a company owned deadhead tool. Once we start giving that up we will never get it back.

That doesn't change the fact that the jumpseats were available, and 3 revenue passengers got left behind, and I have never seen that at Frontier. Thus my point about the operation being better if the E190's were on the Frontier certificate with Frontier crews. At the same time, I fully understand the deadheading crew not being willing to help out, given the treatment that they get on that side of the fence (no pun intended).

Faultpush...I read wrong in your wording there. Thanks for clearing it up.

Yes, we at republic see the jumpseat as a resource for commuters. I personally have agreed to sit in the jumpseat to get a revenue on with the condition that if a pilot showed up that I wanted my seat back. When a pilot showed up I was told that they would not change it back. That was the last time I did that. I always make a walk through the gate area to make sure that there are no jumpseaters and if I have a deadheader who has volunteered to help the company out by riding the jumpseat, I always ensure that they aren't leaving a jumpseater at home. To each their own, but this is a small industry and the favor has paid me back time and time again. In addition, I will always volunteer to sit up front to help a nonrev on. We have to take care of each other because Bedfords too worried about his basketball court to worry about us.

By the way, has anyone told you how many times that the words "good faith" has been used with us and how many times they have actually done that? Zero!

Totally lame in now bringing in the jumpseat. How about worrying about real things like making more than 37 hr for your FO's. Better work rules etc. And no we do not force ANY of your DHD pilots to jumpseat.

Bolo...Our contracts so ****ty we have to highlight the 3 or 4 good things... We admit to this and we also admit it needs to be a lot better. The process of getting this is the same whether you are IBt, Alpa, or FAPA. Our contract was written when we only had 50 seat 145s. It is pitiful but we had to give up a lot to get our scope clause. If not, we would have all been outsourced to the original "republic". If Bedford spent half the time figuring out how to run an airline as he does dreaming of ways to screw us and work groups against each other we would have run off and left southwest.

I probably worded my wording poorly.

I have asked though.

I will not take the jumpseat as a deadheader to get revenue on board. I've seen too many agents expect this. If I'm on company time, I am revenue.

WORD!
agree

Which is why DAL just gave shuttle more flying......

Oh.....you mean like the contract negotiations we've been in for years for much higher pay, better work rules, etc.? Donkey

Mr FAULTPUSH was the one who brought up the jumpseat in another petty swipe at a RAH pilots.

petty (adj): of little or no importance or consequence

3 revenue passengers got left behind and that's a petty? Actually, I guess it really is of little consequence to you, and that was exactly my point.

Revenue passengers were likely left behind for 2 reasons:

1. the DH'ing crew complied with their contract with their employer
2. their employer (your employer) poorly managed their staffing, scheduling, and/or reservations

DH'ing is part of the normal operation of an airline. It is built into the schedule, or done out of necessity to position a crew. Either way, the company made a decision to DH the crew, and to bump revenue in the process.

There are costs to run an airline. One is to, on occasion, bump revenue for the needs of the operation of the airline. You are not helping the company by covering up the problem, only the individual passengers that would have been bumped. Management needs to identify and fix the problem in order to secure the long term future of the operation. Covering it up prevents them from doing so.

It is hard to see this when you're on the front lines, leaving your customers behind.

+1 Agreed. Now lets get back to the meat and potatoes of the thread. Enough of the jumpseat BS.

Yeah...to heck with the paying passengers! We'd rather help the company than them.

What's there to discuss?

Most FAPA members think that taking concessions will be in their best interest by either (a) giving the company the flexibility and cost cuts they need to turn the place around or (b) slow the tightening of the inevitable death spiral that's already been entered.

Most everyone else in the industry (but particularly the RAH pilots) think taking concessions won't make a bit of a difference to the future of Frontier, but these concessions will likely make contractual gains more difficult in the profession in general, and their particular carrier specifically.

The future will judge who was right. The past doesn't smile kindly on the hopes of Frontier's pilots, but the past isn't a guarantee of the future.

Good luck to us all.

Yes, good luck to us all. I mean that sincerely. Ironically, while jumpseating F9 this past year+, there was sometimes concern by F9 pilots that RAH would push, through sheer numbers, to diminish Airbus pay to fund the regional side pay. I don't speak for our union, but they have often stated (backed by our general sentiments, I believe) that there would never ever be a push to diminish F9 wages to enrich the regional side, since we'd all be in it together.

I can promise you, with absolutely zero doubt, that RAH pilots WILL push for substantial and substantially needed gains in our new (and drastically overdue) contract. Given the pending F9 vote, assuming 67 goes through, I guess, "thanks" is in order for voluntarily funding our gains.

I'm not in your shoes, but I'd have a hard time voting "yes" to 67.

I disagree with this. The customers are your revenue source. Now, sure, your airline (like my airline) has dropped the ball many times. But now that it has come down to this situation, I step up and just offer to the gate agent I can ride the J/S if the Captain is ok with it, and that both of us should see him/her. As a Captain, the only concern would be to make sure that no one is trying to hitch a ride home or get to work in the jumpseat. But other than that, I don't see why one would deny a DH a jumpseat so one additional revenue passenger can get on.

The last time I offered to ride the J/S, the gate agent thanked me personally, and printed me a mishandled meal-vocher for $10 bucks.

Summary:

1. One additional revenue passenger gets to where he wanted to go, and where he paid to go.

2. $400 dollar voucher saved for mainline.

3. On top of my regular DH pay, I got a meal voucher for $10. That's a free lunch or dinner.

I can't say I blame FAPA. Everyone outside can scream to hold the line! Deny the cuts! Don't give 'em an inch. etc etc etc

In the end, it boils down to the fact that many at Frontier are there for their final career, and have no intention of going anywhere (some don't even have a backup option). As the hen that lays the golden eggs, the hen's suvival is of utmost importance. FAPA, and the F9 pilots in general, will do what they perceive is necessary to ensure their survival.

You offer to take the jumpseat, walk away or board, a real jumpseater shows up, agent tells him/her that jumpseat is taken, jumpseater leaves, and the agent is the only one that truly knows what happened. It's best to not only not offer, but flat out refuse the jumpseat as a deadheader. You are very short-sighted.

I agree. Don't subsidize management mistakes. Don't screw over your fellow pilots that need the J/S to commute.

Again for the hundredth time this is way over blown. Who is screwing other pilots? Are you at the gate witnessing this? Take your seat in the back and have a cup of Shut the F---k up!
Let it rest, both sides!!!!
RIP DHD/Jumpseat BS!

The issue is if a United, Delta, Express ect. jumpseater is trying to get on one of our holy F9 mainline flights you guys would bump them off the jumpseat while positive spaced. No one else does this but you.

Doesn't happen when there is a jumpseater, Period! DHD RAH pilots have never been forced and will not be forced to take a jumpseat to get another revenue passenger on board. It is in your contract! We can ask and only ask.
Next barrage of BS?

Too true!!

gladly.

lets talk about you continuing to fall for BBs plan to destroy your pay. hes doing a great job in his newsletters massaging your egos...and all you have to do is go along with the plan and everyone will be happy. when you do, youll keep your jobs...for now anyway. soon there will be another reason to take...and all he has to do is pump out charming newsletters to get more.

hopefully there will be a day when you do say NO. hopefully youre strong enough to handle daddy BB being mad at you. no more love letters...no more family talk. youll be on his naughty list.

all RAH understands is the idea that all things being equal, lower pay=lower cost=larger profit margins. that is the only way they know how to do it.

So that's why we're making so much money.

Mmmmmmm....frauuuuuud...... how exactly were you entitled to that meal voucher? Weren't you a non-rev and, therefore, inelligible? What happens if HR gets a hold of that information or when they see your name on that meal voucher ticket lift when it is sent in for reimbursement? wow!!

LOL not any more.

I guess RAH just found a way to pay their FFD side more... On the backs of FAPA!!

Stay classy Frontier!

All of that money is coming from FFD anyway.