Why is fapa williing to give up so much?
06-11-2011, 03:58 AM
#1
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Why is fapa williing to give up so much?
Let me start by saying that I fly for Republic on the FFD side so I do not have much interaction with the F9 pilot group. Let me also say that I do believe that the majority of the Frontier pilot group is made up of good people that mean well.
That being said, I must ask...
Why does it seem like FAPA is so willing to play ball with the company and take concessions? I understand that until the vote on June 17th it is just speculation that the pilot group will vote yes for the proposed concessions, but Bedford seems to be very confident about the whole process.
This is an open question to any F9 drivers. I just want to better understand why you would be willing to take concessions for "good faith" profit type sharing in the future? Not to mention, if you do vote in the concessions then Bedford said that he would then go after every other F9 workgroups (maint., Gate agents, ramp workers etc.) 401k and other benefits and wages thus seemingly making you a target to all other work groups. I have worked under the serpent disguised as Bedford and Co and have learned to worry about agreeing to anything that they propose and that’s why seeing FAPA help the cause worries me so much.
Thank you for your time,
3-1/2 year very junior FO
That being said, I must ask...
Why does it seem like FAPA is so willing to play ball with the company and take concessions? I understand that until the vote on June 17th it is just speculation that the pilot group will vote yes for the proposed concessions, but Bedford seems to be very confident about the whole process.
This is an open question to any F9 drivers. I just want to better understand why you would be willing to take concessions for "good faith" profit type sharing in the future? Not to mention, if you do vote in the concessions then Bedford said that he would then go after every other F9 workgroups (maint., Gate agents, ramp workers etc.) 401k and other benefits and wages thus seemingly making you a target to all other work groups. I have worked under the serpent disguised as Bedford and Co and have learned to worry about agreeing to anything that they propose and that’s why seeing FAPA help the cause worries me so much.
Thank you for your time,
3-1/2 year very junior FO
06-11-2011, 04:57 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 282
Because they love their company. Laugh if you want. I know several F9 folks including pilots and they have an affinity for their airline that many others don't. Remember hearing about the throng of workers who greeted the plane returning with execs from NYC after spurning the Southwest bid and going with Republic? It's a little different at F9 from what I'm told and what I see...
Reminds me of the same kind of spirit that employees had for the original Frontier back in the 80's when all the union groups, except IAM of course, agreed to concession after concession to keep the airline running and eventually came very close to an employee buyout and ownership.
Reminds me of the same kind of spirit that employees had for the original Frontier back in the 80's when all the union groups, except IAM of course, agreed to concession after concession to keep the airline running and eventually came very close to an employee buyout and ownership.
06-11-2011, 05:20 AM
#3
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It's about time someone in this industry stood up for themselves and didn't take a pay cut. Frontier is about to bring us all down one more notch if they vote yes to this crap. Cmon guys, this is out of hand.
If anything they should be voting to INCREASE pay.
If anything they should be voting to INCREASE pay.
06-11-2011, 05:55 AM
#4
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The F9 pilots need to realize all the concessions in the World will not save them from the onslaught of a revitalized CAL/United and Southwest battling for Denver. Delta is also running a lot of flight out of there.
Frontier is a cool airline and I get the employee's loyalty, but Republic does not know how to make the secret sauce which would allow Frontier to beat their much better established competition. The Frequent Flier and network advantages of SWA, UAL and DAL out of Denver will drain the badly needed high revenue passengers away.
Frontier should have never had a cash crunch and never entered bankruptcy. But it happened and the results are what they are. Hopefully we can all pull together to help the F9 guys find careers that restore some of what they lost.
Frontier is a cool airline and I get the employee's loyalty, but Republic does not know how to make the secret sauce which would allow Frontier to beat their much better established competition. The Frequent Flier and network advantages of SWA, UAL and DAL out of Denver will drain the badly needed high revenue passengers away.
Frontier should have never had a cash crunch and never entered bankruptcy. But it happened and the results are what they are. Hopefully we can all pull together to help the F9 guys find careers that restore some of what they lost.
06-11-2011, 06:04 AM
#5
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The part that I think the pro concession crowd is missing is that the problems F9 is having are not related to pilot pay or benefits. if the company can't turn a profit with already below average wages and 14 months of "record" load factors then management is doing something wrong. To think you're going to "save" this airline is dumb.
06-11-2011, 06:16 AM
#7
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Before the F9 pilots vote for concessions I really hope they look at the Frontier costs vs Southwest, Airtran, and Jet Blue. F9 costs per seat mile excluding fuel is with in 0.2 Cents per seat mile of the other companies. Revenue per seat mile however is over 1 CENT per seat mile lower than both Jet Blue and Airtran and 2 cents lower than Southewest. The problem is not a cost issue. You dont see Jetblue taking a wage concession to make money. I am willing to bet every one at Southwest makes more than their counterparts at Frontier. Maybe management should figure out how to make revenue instead of bringing down your contract.
Last edited by Killer51883; 06-11-2011 at 06:29 AM.
06-11-2011, 06:34 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by Crism
It's about time someone in this industry stood up for themselves and didn't take a pay cut. Frontier is about to bring us all down one more notch if they vote yes to this crap. Cmon guys, this is out of hand.
If anything they should be voting to INCREASE pay.
If anything they should be voting to INCREASE pay.
Amazing how easy it is to tell someone else to fall on their sword...
06-11-2011, 07:12 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
The part that I think the pro concession crowd is missing is that the problems F9 is having are not related to pilot pay or benefits. if the company can't turn a profit with already below average wages and 14 months of "record" load factors then management is doing something wrong. To think you're going to "save" this airline is dumb.
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