Why is fapa williing to give up so much?
06-11-2011 | 07:17 AM
#11
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
The Frontier pilots did negotiate something very interesting. Their "concessions" came with an agreement for Republic to divest their majority holding in the Company. The history of these sorts of moves does not provide a lot of hope for a positive outcome, but TWA managed to buy itself some time with such a move.
The fact Republic would agree to such a thing tells volumes about their reconsideration of last year's growth strategy. This tells us volumes about the viability of Frontier's business model.
So no, I don't advocate career suicide. I advocate acknowledging business reality and not doubling down on a losing bet.
06-11-2011 | 07:21 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
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That will never happen unless you can come up with a national seniority list and an ability to make lateral moves. Absent that, pilots will continue to do whatever they myopically think will preserve the job they have at the time.
Amazing how easy it is to tell someone else to fall on their sword...
Amazing how easy it is to tell someone else to fall on their sword...
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
06-11-2011 | 07:33 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 110
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FOOLISHNESS is to take concessions.... it is such a small portion of the whole financial picture. Shame on your FAPA leaders. Look at the guys at USAirways...working for peanuts while the airline still bleeds big bucks.
06-11-2011 | 07:33 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
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The F9 pilots need to realize all the concessions in the World will not save them from the onslaught of a revitalized CAL/United and Southwest battling for Denver. Delta is also running a lot of flight out of there.
Frontier is a cool airline and I get the employee's loyalty, but Republic does not know how to make the secret sauce which would allow Frontier to beat their much better established competition. The Frequent Flier and network advantages of SWA, UAL and DAL out of Denver will drain the badly needed high revenue passengers away.
Frontier should have never had a cash crunch and never entered bankruptcy. But it happened and the results are what they are. Hopefully we can all pull together to help the F9 guys find careers that restore some of what they lost.
Frontier is a cool airline and I get the employee's loyalty, but Republic does not know how to make the secret sauce which would allow Frontier to beat their much better established competition. The Frequent Flier and network advantages of SWA, UAL and DAL out of Denver will drain the badly needed high revenue passengers away.
Frontier should have never had a cash crunch and never entered bankruptcy. But it happened and the results are what they are. Hopefully we can all pull together to help the F9 guys find careers that restore some of what they lost.
BINGO-- its as if they entered bankruptcy, b/c they saw everyone else is doing it and it became mainstream to get back concessions-- well know even more concessions wont begin to help-- ur totally right, sw and the new ual will slaughter them over time
06-11-2011 | 08:06 AM
#17
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
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Good Faith effort is what led to our amazing stock purchase program for the employees.
06-11-2011 | 08:13 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,585
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The Frontier pilots are in a position where they will not have a job in the near future. It might be months, it might be a year or two, but losing their jobs is inevitable. Best case scenario at this point is they continue working under their current contract and maybe some of them end up flying as Republic captains. This is the best outcome they can expect at this point. It's a bad situation to be in. Taking concessions is a hail mary. The chances of it helping is slim to none, but they are still going to take their chance and probably get hurt more in the process. They are also hurting everyone else in the process by lowering the bar again.
06-11-2011 | 08:15 AM
#20
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 115
Likes: 1
Skippy and friends, you're geniuses. Mental juggernauts.
Bedford traded FAPA a pay freeze in exchange for ownership in the future independent Frontier Airlines as well as a profit sharing plan tied to the same matrix as the management bonus plan. It's simply converting future raises from short term gains to long term investments.
But none of that matters. All the Frontier pilots want, and would pay a lot more to get is to reverse the raping and pillaging that the IBT has done to their careers. We would rather succeed or fail on our own than to see the IBT steal what we have earned and built over a long period of time.
Bedford traded FAPA a pay freeze in exchange for ownership in the future independent Frontier Airlines as well as a profit sharing plan tied to the same matrix as the management bonus plan. It's simply converting future raises from short term gains to long term investments.
But none of that matters. All the Frontier pilots want, and would pay a lot more to get is to reverse the raping and pillaging that the IBT has done to their careers. We would rather succeed or fail on our own than to see the IBT steal what we have earned and built over a long period of time.
Last edited by Great Santini; 06-11-2011 at 08:21 AM. Reason: iPad spell checker F'd up
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