DAL to replace 100 757's with 739's
 

Is anyone else surprised that DAL ordered 100 737-900ER's to replace their 757 birds?

Why take an uncomfortable 757 and replace it with an even more uncomfortable 737 that can't go as far, carry as much, climb as well and looks like a pregnant water buffalo trying to get off the ground on a hot day and full load?

I thought they would have gone another direction.......

What direction did you think they would go? Have you ridden in a new 700 with the better seats and entertainment system? There were only three choices for delivery in 2013. A321, 900 or 900ER. If in fact they have picked the 900ER it clearly outperforms the other two options. The A321 is not a true transcon aircraft so limited on many routes for Delta.

Delta expected to announce 737-900/-9 deal | ATWOnline

Air Transport World says this order may be much larger than just replacing their 757 fleet. Also talks about (which we've been hearing for months/years) replacing the DC9s, MD80/90s, and A320s, but it doesn't clarify if this order will replace all of those at once or if they're making piecemeal purchases to replace each individual fleet. I'm curious to see how large of an order this really is.

For those of us who aren't madly in love with Boeing 737s and know what it's like to ride in them...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p_yW75r2CQ...252520down.jpg

Delta needs aircraft in 2013. I am sure there will be another order for the NEO'd A320 or 737 at a later date. We still have a bunch of delivery slots on 777's and 737-800's on the books. One thing to be aware of is there are many types of aircraft orders. Some are very firm while others are simply a option that requires almost no cash to secure. Americans order is mostly future options that can be canceled at any time. If the rumors are true this is for 100 firm orders. I am sure there will be some delivery positions attached to the order that are not firm.

And the 737-900ER won't have this problem? I find that VERY hard to believe. Boeing claims just under 3300 miles, but that's with 2 AUX tanks. What will it do without those?

Not interested in upgrading anytime soon, eh?

"Mostly future options"? Yes. But still 260 orders, starting in 2013, on top of the 54 737's already scheduled between now and the new orders coming on line in 2013.

I think it's more that the 737-900 has not been an impressive product, & we don't want to see our company buy a dog of an airplane. RA has been stating that in order to get the value out of an airplane it needs to be owned for close 30 years. If we are going to buy an airplane and keep it for 30 years I just want to know it can do what Delta needs it to.

I'm still interested in getting hired sometime soon. Is this actually supposed to be a net growth kind of a deal, or just a 1-for-1 replacement?

Only planned retirements right now are the DC9's so we don't know. New planes are better than no planes :D. Hiring should start again within 6 months IMHO

Awesome! I hope you are right..... I will be (finally) finished with my degree in two or three months

I do transcons every week out of EWR in the 900ER. I've never stopped for gas once. It is a runway hog. High Vr numbers to avoid hitting the tail.

Comfort?
The 757 & 737 have the exact same fuselage.
Coach is coach and first is first. The seat comfort and pitch is up to your airline.

Who cares how far it can go, you only need to worry about how far you need to go. We use the 737 on transcons and the 757 to Europe. Berlin to Newark in the winter was fun.

Can't carry as much? The 737-900ER holds 173 people and the 757-200 holds 175, so you are right. It carries less fuel too, but that is why airlines want it. It burns a lot less.

I will agree the 900ER is a pig compared to the 757-200 on the same route. The 757 has more power and out climbs the 900ER. The 900ER costs less to operate and that is why airlines want it.

Was that you I saw the other week in LAS parked forlornly at the end of 7L waiting (and waiting....and waiting...) while ATC tries to build a big enough hole in the 25L arrivals to let you depart?

It's a sorry excuse for a 757 replacement, but it's still better than an A321. Maybe you Delta guys can get the optional water-injection system for those summer ops out of SLC. :D

Pay the 737 what SWA does and who could complain

Otto,

I did an IND overnight last month and a 900 was there from EWR on a tech stop on the way to SFO... not sure why, the winds seemed fine?.? I agree though... it's a PIG!

Bat

Otto,

Thanks for the info. It's nice to hear from somebody with hands on experience. If it's the same fuselage as the 757, any chance that flight deck is the same size? :D

So basically...a 737-900ER is like a 757, just not as good. :D

From a pilot standpoint......I'd have to agree. :D

SWA rates are pre-bankruptcy 2001 rates.. not enough IMHO.

I was on the 757 before I upgraded on the 737. I love the 757 and hate the 737. Unfortunately Boeing has stretched this thing into a poor-man's 757 and the airlines love it ($$). The cockpit is small, but at least its all glass unlike the 1980's cockpit of the 757. The systems and overhead panel of the 737 is 1960's though. When I "volunteered" to go back to the right seat so the scabs can fly another 5 years, I stayed on the 737 because it pays the same as the 757.

No, but today I had to wait to depart wrong-way, flaps 15, improved climb, no reduced power, bleeds off. I rotated on the opposite end numbers. Gotta love the 900ER! Again, its not all a power issue, but often its a rotation issue. Very high speeds to avoid tail strikes. Takeoff and landing.

Of course, when I was on the 757, I flew the 757-300 out of LAS often when hot & heavy and it flew like the 737-900ER.

It can be whatever the company wants it to be depending on the profitability of Delta. If we can keep older aircraft in service and make a acceptable return then some of these will no doubt be growth aircraft. If the economy really sucks we could see a net reduction in aircraft or at best a 1 for 1 replacement. Since no one can predict this crazy economy its hard to make any blanket statements. A lot is going to be happening at Delta in the next 3 years. A dice roll probably is about as good a prediction as you can get.

From a pilot standpoint yes. From a cost and profitability standpoint the 900 wins hands down.

Hey Otto, these high VR's are understandable for tailstrike issues but is it a runway hog just for derate takeoffs? Can it do better but it's just for derate reasons?

Because how is the 739 on wet runways out of EWR for instance on a transcon?

From what I read once it was the 738 that killed the order book on the 757. The 757 admittedly is taking a sniper rifle to a fist fight on many routes. I get that it couldn't last forever.

At one of the lounge meetings Delta stated that the non employee CASM on the 800 was 30 percent below the 757. Dispatch reliability was also quite a bit higher. That could be a factor of age however.

I wouldn't doubt that at all. We all love to fly the 757, but the order book eventually did die. There's no way around that. Frankly, ATL-FLL or ATL-PBI or possibly ATL-MCO for instance doesn't require all the punch a 757 offers.

Sailing, I don't dispute that you heard that, but it does not match the numbers Delta reported to the DOT BTS. According to those numbers, the 757 is about 15% less to operate and the -300 is the most efficient airplane in the fleet.

You are correct the airplane is simply getting old. The construction of the fuselage cycles out. Maybe maintenance is the killer.

The 757 is a clearly superior airplane, which is easier to fly and enjoys more "big airplane" systems. Unless they change that L1 door, closet, galley choke point, it will be difficult to have any efficiencies as far as turn times go.

I like some of Boeing's big, flat and fat dual aisle designs. The A330 and 767 are so much easier to get on and off of. Even the baby bus' lager aisle width allows folks to drag bags, making it easier to exit.

End of the day, I'm thrilled we are investing in our narrow body fleet. Job security is bottom line.

Bucking, The 30 percent was a not employee cost figure. Add in employees and a overall cost reduction of 15% is probably right.

Boeing could probably sell 50-60 757-300s to Delta if they restarted that line.

Some of the folks at Airliners.net seem to be speculating that the 717s are going to DAL to sweeten the 737-900 deal.

Nu

Interesting that someone noticed 20 717s are no longer for sale on Boeing.com.

Gary Kelly bought 'em. He's a genius!

I should've thought of that. I'm playing connect 4 while Gary Kelly is playing chess.

Not just derated. Even full power it can be a runway hog. I often ask for full length in EWR instead of 22R at W. All the widebodies are taking the intersection and my little 737 needs full length- all 12,000'. The company likes the derated power for obvious reasons and the plane is often good at W with a derated thrust, but why drag the gear through the grass at the departure end? I'll do full power and/or full length to rotate on the numbers on the other end (with the displaced threshold). It all depends on the weight and conditions. We often use the longest runway, full power, and/or bleeds off in the 900ER. I do a lot of SFO and request 28 for departure because we can't do the 1's.

Interesting. Thanks Otto.

I think the major reason why we shouldn't buy 739s is the cactus seats.

I think it speaks volumes about what you think about your passengers by ordering an airplane with cactus seats.

Boeing 737-900 Cactus Seats:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/temp3-17.jpg

Huh? I thought Cactus seats were a product of the West division of the airline run by the un cool drunk.

(SWA being the airline founded by the cool alcoholic)