worst jumpseater ever?
 

I still laugh when I think about the jumpseater that stole the silverware off an Evergreen 747. The crew landed with jumpseater in Europe somewhere, and the catering folks came aboard and asked what happened to the silverware. Yes, some catering was served with the metal kind back in 1995, believe it or not.

So, by process of elimination and character evaluation, it was determined that the jumpseater packed up the silverware for himself. He was setting up an apartment in Brussels after all.

Surely some of you can beat this story. Let's hear your worst jumpseater tale

Taxiied back to the gate and gave the boot to a cranky UAL jumpseater that played nice until we pushed back. As soon as the tug was disconnected, he started bitching about how we (United Express) were stealing jobs from UAL guys and he thought we should all be fired and he didn't give a damn about anybody at our company.

Captain looked him straight in the eye and said with a smile, "Well if you feel that CRJ's don't belong in the United system, then I suppose you can find another United affiliate to take you to work. I certainly am not going to tolerate a hostile attitude from you in my cockpit. As of this moment I consider you a security concern and I don't want you sitting up here." Too bad there wasn't a seat in the cabin...

The other good story comes from a trip I was flying as FO out of Birmingham, AL. We're just about to close the door when the gate agent comes down and says there's an FAA inspector at the gate.

He comes down 2 minutes before departure, pushes his way past the FA and says, you guys are taking me to Chicago. I'm doing a line check on you today. We were already weight limited and had left two passengers behind (due to weather/extra fuel), and had handed the paperwork out.

Captain asks for the guys FAA ID and it says "Maintenance Inspector - Anchorage FSDO." It was fun watching the FAA dude get all red faced when the captain told him "Ain't gonna happen."

He got all ****y until the CA whipped out the cellphone and called our company POI directly (The POI apparently lived two doors down from him.) I've never seen an inspector go pale as quick as this guy did. Classic.

Summer last year, a Jet Blue capt told the capt and I that

"The problem with you at NWA is that the pilots make too much money. You just got to learn to live with making less".

Too bad we were half way to our destination.......

This is not about a jumpseater, but about jumpseating. I was told by a captain I flew with a year or so ago that when he rode on an airline based at ORD which hired a lot of people for reasons other than piloting reason..... that when he was strapped into the jumpseat the F/O asked him if he "had his stuff in" with that company. The guy I know said, "No, I am happy to stay where I work now." The F/O told him to keep working on his "twin time". This to a captain with over 10,000 hours and thousands of jet PIC.

The captain of the major told the F/O not to patronise pilots more experience than herself.

Had a FAA guy, DC-10 typed, ride the jumpseat back in the CRJ days.

ATC gave us a lower altitude so I looked at the release, which had the lower alt. and also entered the change in the FMS.

He then spoke up by saying in a higher than thou attitude, "Welllllllll, I'm not familiar with the CRJ but how do you know what your fuel burn will be now?"

I then showed him my release that had the new altitude, and the began to give him a lesson on the FMS and actually showed him how little fuel the aircraft burn even if they dropped us down to 8000 ft.

He remained quiet for the rest of the trip and a few days later I ran into some fellow FAA folks from this guys region and told them the story. They just rolled their eyes and said that this guy was a real winner. ;)

Not sure if it true, but I hope so.

Heard a tale of a jumpseater hoping on a UAL flight and went to ask the Captain for the seat, the FO said " I'll handle this" looked at the jumpers paperwork, welcomed him onboard and introduced himself to the jumper, then intoduced the FE to the jumper then said "thats the Captain, but don't tlak to him, he is a scab" all this while the Captain sat silently looking out the window knowing his place.

I was in the second jumpseat on a flightdeck where the other jumpseater (on-line guy) was never, ever spoken to or offered coffee, meal, or anything. They went out of their way to make me feel extra-welcome, and actually made him sit in the crappy seat behind the CA. Gotta wonder how long a guy can stand that kind of treatment without going bananas! Keep your eye on the tie, guys!

Can you explain the tie? Never ALPA, just SWAPA.

Thanks

I'm sure a UAL guy will have the answer, but after commuting on them for over 4 years in my previous gig and listening to them talk, it's something like this.

At UAL, like a few other places, they have scabs. And like other places, the scabs are not well liked. Despite what one thinks of ALPA, all the pilots (non -scab) wear ALPA pins on their ties. Scabs do not. I'm not sure if they are entitled to representation or not. The "slick tie" as they call it is giving it away that they are a scab. Hence, if the guys has a "slick tie", he probably won't get much respect from anybody.

Skywest guy gets on my very union airplane and we take him home. As he's getting off I innocently ask how things are going in his world. He launches into a tirade about how terrible representation would be, and how a union "would set us back 8 years." I wanted to scream. Couldn't kick him off, cause he was getting off. Clearly he didn't recgonize who was responsible for the selling of the jumpseat concept to the Feds and airlines. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but maybe some discretion when benefitting from the kindness of others.

With SKW starting pay already at 19/hr, I'd hate to see what 8 years ago is like. Any union would almost have to try and lower that.

Just another reason to deny the jumpseat to those B6 potential scab bastiges! :mad:

RJ pilot flying UAL colors gets to the cockpit to ask for jumpseat. On his Flt. Bag is a sticker with a picture of an RJ, mouth open eating a Guppy(737). It states GUPPY KILLER. I told him Sticker or jumpseat he decided to keep his sticker and find another way home. I believe it was a Mesa guy.

WTF is wrong with people? I mean, the guy needs his ass kicked.

I'd make him take the sticker off too. And I fly an RJ.

Careful with this. A scab is a scab. A tie is a tie. They do not alway match up. I know many non-scabs ****ed off at ALPA that don't wear their pins. I went through a period of time when my pin fell off and was lost. It took me months to replace it. Look at the tie and then verify that it is true. Don't just act on a tie without a pin.

APLA and CALAPLA gives out lots of bag stickers to put on for various reasons. I don't put any of them on. I have the nylon bag; they do not stick. That does not make me a bad/non-union pilot. I was on the strike committee for the last contract.:)

Do you work for CAL or UAL? I know, you spent all this time at XJet and know you have moved on to CAL and think it's so cool to fly the 75/76. But CAL's pilot group and UAL's pilot group are different in alot of ways. Ask a UAL friend (if you have one) what he thinks, I just ask my dad. He spent 33 years there and walked a picket line once in my lifetime. My brother spent 10. Ask your UAL friends what a "slick tie"means. Again, I'll just ask my dad or brother.

I agree. Im an ALPA member but as a first year pilot I am not fully represented by ALPA so I don't fully represent ALPA. Yes, I know I am not paying union dues yet so lets not go down that road. I carry my ALPA card in my wallet if anyone wants to see it. But until ALPA looks out for the interests of first year pilots or I become a second year pilot, then I am not going to wear the pin or the bag tags. *dons O2 mask and smoke goggles* OK, flame away.

What exactly do you mean by looking out for first year pilots? If it's pay only, then I would agree. But, I have seen more than once where a probationary pilot got himself into trouble somehow and ALPA still represented him and kept him from getting fired.

Forgive my ignorance...
 

...but I've never worked in a union shop before (Just retired after 24 years in the Air Force).

Does ALPA only charge partial dues for the lack of "full representation" during the first year or do the new hires pay the full rate? One should get what they pay for, not pay for what they don't get, shouldn't they?

Dave

Generally speaking: Unions are not required to provide representation for probationary members (generally the first year). As such first year/probationary members are not required to pay dues. They are also usually not permitted to vote with the membership on various items that will come forward (such as contracts, LOAs, etc).

That said, an MEC may choose to extend representation or voting rights (or other benefits that good-standing, active members have) to probationary members. It often varies on a case by case basis. Some MECs will fight for their probationary members. Others won't. It ofthen depends on what they are fighting for (big picture).

I see. Aside from the "gentle urging" of your fellow pilots :rolleyes: , there is no mandatory requirement to join the union in your probationary year (if at all). Does the same apply if the airline is a closed shop (mandatory union membership)? Would a probationary pilot get representation then?

Dave,

In that first year you are on probation, you are pretty much at the mercy of the company. If they want to fire you, they can, and there isn't a whole lot the union can do about it. If you keep your nose clean, and perform like an average employee, you will not have any problems.

When I was at Delta, we didn't pay ALPA dues during our probationary year, but we did join ALPA. We received our union cards that said "apprentice" instead of "active" during that first year. We had no voting rights, and had extremely limited representation rights.

At the start of year 2, we became active members with all rights afforded to ALPA members, and our paychecks started getting docked the 1.95% dues charge. If you had declined to join the union in your probationary year, you would not be an ALPA member, but your check would still be docked the same 1.95%....you had no say in the matter (closed shop scenario). In this situation, you would be foolish to NOT be a member of the union, and have the right to vote on all issues affecting the membership.

Bottom line....if you are considering joining a company like UAL, DAL, etc...that has ALPA representation, you would be crazy not to join the union. As a member, you will have a means for your voice to be heard, a chance to vote on the issues, and the people that represent you. As a non member paying the same dues, you will have no voice. Good luck.

A probationary pilot does receive representation from a union in the form of pay, work rules, and other areas of the CBA.

What most new pilots mean by "representation" is do they receive council during a disciplinary hearing. It can vary by airline, but in most cases the answer is no.

I would too.

Primarily the pay issue, yes. The unions (primarily ALPA) have treated the regionals (the sector of the industry I am currently involved in) like red-headed step children for so long that you now have guys flying what are basically mainline aircraft (CRJ-900s, E190s, etc) for chump change ($19/hr in the case of SlyWest, and not much better at some of the union shops). Same goes for UPS, CAL and others. Do you think the airlines really care about having the ability to fire at will during that first year? My guess is no. But what they do care about is having you on the payroll for at least a year working for peanuts. They laugh all the way to the bank and we stand there with a sh!t toothed grin.

Then there is also the representation and voting rights. Where you have seen probationary pilots helped out by ALPA, I have seen ALPA throw probationary pilots to the wolves and walk away, saying "best of luck" over their shoulder. I'm sure a lot depends on the company, the pilot and the company's relationship with the union but still. I'd pay a lot more than 1.95% to have someone looking out for my interests when its my a$$ on the line. As far as voting goes, I as a first year pilot feel I have more to gain or lose from a contract vote than a guy who is leaving for CAL or SWA or retiring in a year. Sure, some guys would make the argument that the pilots who have been around longer are older and wiser, which is true to some extent. But it just burns me up that some schlub I have never met who doesn't know a thing about me gets to decide under what conditions and for what compensation I will be working for the next 4 years or so regardless of the fact that he won't be there in a year. How about instead of the senior pilots treating the new guys like they're diseased, lets try some education. Make it a point to educate the younger guys you fly with rather than spout off about whats "wrong with the young guys" and how those of us brand new to the industry have ruined it (i just got to the party but apparently I already clogged the toilet, ate all the snacks and left a turd in the punchbowl? Explain that one to me:rolleyes: ). But what do I know, I'm just a probationary pilot.

True, and well said. One more lesson to learn if you are new industry. I have no experience with The Teamsters or IPA, or any other pilot union. But, in ALOT of cases, ALPA is only as good as your local MEC.

At my previous job, our MEC took very little crap, if any, from the company. All this while the place is crumbling like crazy. And no, us and our MEC agreeing to get bent over would not have helped save the airline. I haven't been my current jon long enought to judge.

Careful with this. A scab is a scab. A tie is a tie. They do not alway match up. I know many non-scabs ****ed off at ALPA that don't wear their pins>>>

At UAL there are still no slick ties (unless they are scabs). The guys who are fed up with ALPA just put a screw above the ALPA pin:D

Not to slam your post DJD but what are you insinuating here. Our full-term strikers were out of a job for 3 years back in the '80's. Not sure how much time any UAL Pilot spent on the street during any of their strikes but I bet it wasn't even close to that.

That is an agency shop, not a closed shop. In a closed shop, you must join the union. You have no choice in the matter.

An agency shop allows you to remain independent as long as you pay union dues.

You are correct sir! Incorrect terminology on my part. Although your use of the term "independent" is a bit misleading. If you choose not to be a member of ALPA at Delta, the union still negotiates your contract for you, and you have absolutely no say or voice in the matter (and you're still paying dues). Just plain dumb, in my opinion.

I suppose you think it would be better if 65,000 plus pilots negotiated their own contracts "Independently"???

Get real! Airline Unions, especially all the ALPA MEC's have made this job a career with decent pay and benefits, none of which would be around if it weren't for "Collective Bargaining" (even with all the concessions).

Why should a Pilot who is part of the Craft and Class get all the benefits of a negoitiated contract without paying for it.

Do you think some members of a country club should get to play golf and swim and Eat for free while the rest of the members pay dues?

Take a valium Redeye. I have no idea why you're getting nasty with me.....I agree with what you're saying.

The main point I was trying to make was: if you have to pay anyways, then why not be a member of the union, have voting rights, and a voice? At Delta, we had a bunch of guys that didn't belong to ALPA, but still payed dues, and had absolutely no voice or vote in union/company business. Like I said before......dumb. Get it?

Yep, three years. And no, a UAL pilot can't make that claim. To me, everyone of those guys should be given a medal for actually having the balls to stand up to the BS in this industry for 3 years. Despite what it cost them. What I said means just that, the pilot groups are different. CAL, ALOT of scabs. UAL, a FEW scabs. Relativley speaking. UAL seems to be much less tolerent of scabs than CAL.

And now....the rest of the story. That United Express Captain continued to work for ACA until they became Independence Air. Within a year IDE was bankrupt and out of business. Now that captain is waiting for United to accept resumes in 2007 so he can quit his crappy corporate job at CAT, and throw gear for that said "cranky UAL jumpseater"

If you are referring to Flyerjosh, you could not be more wrong over who the CA was on that flight.

UAL pilot strike was 29 days, although the "hostilities" lasted much longer. The strike was followed by the first ESOP attempt (2 years later?) as it was clear management was intent on continuing their anti-labor activities.

I had a captain at my previous airline tell me he had a guy get on with an "E170 Guppy Killer" sticker on his bag wanting a ride. The captain, infront of all the passengers, said "thats a cute sticker, but the only way you are riding on my aircraft is if you peel that thing off your bag infront of the passengers" he said the kids face turned white, and he then kneeled down and peeled the thing right off, and this is from a Dash 8 captain!

And your point is ? The really great thing about this industry is that in all cases, the Captain is just that, The Captain. Good for him. He done well.