Planespotta

I figured I'd post this here instead of the career builder or other forum sections because most of you have "played the game" before and are speaking from experience instead of expectations and (sometimes false) hopes.


I am at that fork in the road where I need to choose what to do and it will affect the rest of my career. Which of the following paths would be more conducive to employment by a major airline as soon as possible? I am also considering the military (specifically the guard or reserves) in addition to the following 2 choices...


1) Regionals
- Fly right seat for 5-10 years until upgrading
- Jet/121/crew/glass time...probably the most valuable civilian flight time to walk into an airline interview with once it's being accrued from the left seat, riiiight?


2) Ameriflight/135
- PIC turbine time within 1 year of being hired, 500-750 hours a year in T-Props
- Single-pilot, hand-flown IFR @ night, build a solid base of flying skills, as well as some crew experience w/ pay-to-play'ers and right seat trainees


PIC multi turbine being the key, it seems that AMF would be the quickest way to log that time, but would it still be valued by the majors as much as PIC time in a 121 regional jet operation?


With the 65 retirees losing steam by approximately 2015, I feel that the AMF/135 route could be a quick way to build 4000ish PIC turbine hours before that door closes, but if I couldn't get on with a major within the next 5 years, I would essentially be sentencing myself to life as a right-seater. Maybe eventually reaching a major, but still second-in-command. Or, if I went to the regionals and upgrade time stayed at around 5 years, I would at least make jet captain by 2017-2018 and be in a position to get hired by a major.


I know this is a lot of hypothesizing very far in advance (especially for this industry), but what do y'all think? I am in no way delusional and understand that either route will have its ups and downs. That being said, thanks in advance for the replies...lets bounce some ideas around!

Pilot X

if what you care about is money and a stable career get out of aviation and apply to mcdonalds.....you'll upgrade in a few years, to manager that is. you'll make more money plus be home every night.

forgot to bid

I don't know about DAL but does JB still have the >20,000 lb requirement on it's Part 121 TPIC minimums?

Have I seen people hired at Delta without having flow > 20,000 lb aircraft... yes. 1 for sure.

How long until you can be PIC on the Brasilia's?

FWIW, a friend of mine had a Cape Air pilot on his plane. That pilot's plan was to skip the regionals and go straight to the majors from C402s. I don't know how possible that is, I guess it'd depend on who is hiring.

lolwut

When the majors start hiring in significant numbers, you're going to be competing with all the current RJ pilots.... thousands of pilots with thousands of hours of Part 121 Jet PIC time.

Not to say you couldn't make it going the 135 route and that you wouldn't meet the requirements on paper... but your competition will be stiff.

Planespotta

Brasilia left seat takes an absolute maximum of 3 years, Metro can be achieved within 1-2 as well and that is up to 16000 lbs MGTOW on the Expediter (fyi). BE-99 or 1900 after a 6-month starting stint in the Pa-31 or right seat in the 'bro is the norm

BeardedFlyer

I went over the exact same question for months. What I decided on was AMF and here is why:

The toughest minimum to meet for the majors is the twin turbine PIC. Regarding who will be hired at a major first, a 121 CRJ Capt vs. a 135 AMF capt, it's not a black and white answer. A 135 guy with internal recs has a very good chance of being hired over a 121 guy with no connections. Everything else being equal, the 121 Capt will probably get the job but he had to sit there for half a decade or more waiting to upgrade while the AMF guy got the 1000hrs ME turbine PIC in three years.

In three years at AMF you will meet the flight time requirements for any major and can go right ahead and start applying. A 3 year FO at a regional cannot even apply until at least 1.5 years after making Capt.

Worst case scenario; if you can't get hired at a major right after your 3 yrs at AMF due to lack of 121 or jet experience or whatever then put in a year or two as a CJ FO at any regional which will take a 3 yr AMF guy in a heartbeat. Now this is the reason why AMF is the better route, even if you can't get straight to a major afterwards and still end up having to put in time at a regional you won't be sitting there under the mercy of upgrade times because you will already have the ME turbine PIC! All you're there for is a little 121/ CRM/jet experience, and from your last day at AMF throughout you first, second, or third years (doubt it will take that long) at the regional you can continue updating and sending resumes to the majors while your fellow FOs are still waiting for their PIC time.

So in summary, AMF route has a fair to good chance, depending on your connections of getting you to a major in 3 years. BUT, even if you still end up having to transition through a regional after AMF, you should still be at a major within 5 years.

Now the wild card is the average regional upgrade time. Right now its 5-7 years but 1, 2 or 3 years from now who knows, it could drop way down.

Too Tall

Your best bet is Military Reserves if you can find a unit that will give you a pilot seat and get on at a regional, or If not I would go just the regional route. If you can get a reserve pilot spot you will get turbine time, jet time, and PIC through training. Depending on what unit you get onto maybe Heavy time which airlines love. After you complete all your training get on at a regional and build your total time there while working at a 121. Seems to me airline HR likes those two routes over anything else. In my class at Delta it was about 1/3 military to 2/3 regional, there were no 135 guys. If guys had 135 time it was used to get on to a 121 regional. We did have one guy that was flying ATRs over seas, if your that desperate for quick time building and quick PIC that might be the way to go.

jonnyjetprop

As a former AMF pilot (1988-89), almost everyone I knew made the stop at a commuter/regional. The few that didn't (and I don't know if they brag about them like they used to) were hired with extremely low time by United or had some other thing going on. My airline, World, hired a Cal Air Charter (the former name of AMF) pilot and one guy went direct to UPS.

Planespotta

Dude, awesome post. I completely see where you're coming from. That upgrade time does seem like the wild card though, but either way it seems like AMF is essentially a guarantee for landing the 1000 turbine PIC.

jonnyjetprop, I have witnessed the same thing at AMF, seems like people "do their time" then move on to SkyWest or some regional to lock in the 121 time.

tootall, flying for the reserves/guard and the regionals at the same time sounds like a quick way to get the time and fly for a good cause as well. That would honestly be the ideal path for me. Any idea how military training time would factor into the equation?

forgot to bid

I'd seriously consider AMF and upgrade ASAP and transition to the 120 to help pad the numbers. Seems smart to me.