Sanchez,

Someone needs to speak up for the down side of aviation. I am glad that you and Redeye are happy. My message is not intended for you. No one died and left me boss. I am an individual who has a right to his own opinions and they happen to be an unpopular truth here. I don't know who you are or your situation. As far as I know you could be a trust fund baby who doesnt need a real income.

My aim is to reach those working class people who are evaluating this career against other career options. Aviation is very one sided when it comes to information gathering for newbies. I am not trying to deter people from their dream simply trying to bring to light the facts of what they are facing. Even the famous "Ranger" mentioned in a post that he places the odds at one in 25 of making it to a good major.

By your naivety my guess is that you are fairly new to the industry. Your story is just beginning. In ten years I will be very interested to hear what your opinion is then.



SkyHigh

 

I for one am glad that Skyhigh is here. I love my job. I love to fly. I also know that there are a lot of people who never hear the rough parts of the job before they come across them. Skyhigh is here for that purpose. He had a rough experience. Some of us won't have the same experience, but I believe it is a great disservice to the newbies in the industry to have them only know and believe the good parts. Skyhigh doesn't exist on this board for those of us who like our jobs and have had great enjoyment from a pilot career. Don't get bent out of shape over his way of thinking. Really.

 

There is nothing wrong with letting people know some of the negatives one may experience during their career. BUT, you cannot assume that everybody will experience this.

I think it is also important to note that other careers, outside of aviation, also have negatives. I have plenty of family and friends who work in non-aviation related careers, and they have experienced some very difficult times as well.

Through my job, I have had the privilage of talking to many pilots; regional, and major first officers, and captain. I also have friends who fly for the regionals, and majors. I have yet to talk to one pilot who has told me he does not like his job, or wouldn't recommend it, or wouldn't do it over again. This includes legacy first officers, and captains, who have taken, some of them, 50% pay cuts.

When I look at what my friends and family members are making in their non-aviation related careers, vs. what my friends who are regional captains are making, I see no difference. Less than 10% of people will make over $80K in their career. $80K is also included in the top 10% of income earners. This may not apply to everybody, but my friends who are regional captains, are pulling in $80K with only 5-6 years with a regional; 2-3 as FO, 2-3 as CA. In fact, a good friend of mine is a 3rd year CA at Mesa, and is pulling in $70K; 3 years into his career as an airline pilot.

Saying it will take 20 years to make a livable wage as a pilot, or to assume that everybody goes to ERAU and has $100K+ in debt, is absolutely ridiculous. FYI, I will have no debt when I enter the regional world. Not everybody's situation is the same.

 

And why is that? If someone starts a career in any industry, don't you think they no what the hell is going on? If not, they don't need to be in the right seat of a multimillion dollar RJ. Do you honestly believe that someone starting from scratch will be so clueless as not to see what is going on in the industry.

To those of you taking Skyhigh's laments to heart, if you read some of his past posts, you will see he made some very narrow career choices. And that's by your own admission Skyhigh. You set your sights on one area of the country, one major airline and ignored other east coast options.

So again, here we go with your bashing of a career that has been fantastic over the years for thousands. So Skyhigh, since you love camping so much, perhaps you should find a nice camping forum. But maybe there is some chucklehead there that wants to tell you how dangerous camping is, how some bear attacked and killed several, or someone got caught in a brushfire, or an alligator took someone's leg off and that camping just plain dumb for anyone to try because they got a bad case of poison ivy. Or maybe you should find a forum about the dangers of driving and you should convince folks not to get a driver's license because of all the carnage on the roads these days, hey over 50,000 dead a year. Wow, maybe we should all remove ourselves from the roads. In your words, "somebody has to tell the story". What a whinner, geez.

 

Your statement was fine until you got to this sentence. I'm not naive nor new (unless you consider 3 and half years new), I know exactly what I signed up for, in ten years some things won't be as exiting, some things will be old, and others will just be anoying, but I guarantee you I will still enjoy it more than actually working.

Here's the difference between you and me, I picked a good company to launch my career with, and I actually refuse to focus on the negative aspects of my occupation which are far and few.

I know you think you're doing people a service by being a self-proclaimed mentor to the naive masses, but I don't even think you're in a position to give advice as you are no longer a pilot. It's not too late to find an extra curricular activity, a girlfriend (or boyfriend if that's your gig), or some other outlet for your frustrations.

Just FYI, all good mentors use positive re-enforcement to make their point across, not bitter remarks.

 

Thanks but I am not a mentor. Sometimes my points have to sting a little if they are to sink in. At 3 1/2 years you are still new. Your statement about "picking a good company" reveals your naive nature even more. No one can pick a winner in this industry. I don't know who you work for but an RJ is a long way from making it.

Good Luck,

SKyHigh

 

Shackone,

I have missed you my old friend. It seems to me that you should be on my team. You haven't had a smooth ride yourself. You have been kicked to the curb more than I have over a longer time period but yet are still chipper about the abuse. You never made it out of the MD80. I understand that there are people out there who are alright with being a door mat for the industry. Perhaps it was easier for you to take all those years of starting over as a new FO since you had a military retirement to fall back on. Others see aviation as a career and not a quest or rock to martyr themselves upon. Perhaps you harbor similar thoughts as I but need to strongly repel them since the realization would be too painful for you?

You are correct. I did not wish to live on the east coast for this career. I also wouln't move overseas to continue the job. In addition I will not accept a position anymore that offers a starting wage of less than 40K. There are some things that contribute greatly to the quality of life and to ones self respect that are non-negotible. Few other careers demand as much.

I aknowlege that aviation is the right place for some people. In life some truly aren't good for anything else. They are too lazy to work, too uninspired to create and too self centered to sacrifice. Those people are called pilots. To those of you who fit this description I say go forth. Someone has to do it.

My aim is to reach those who have a life and a level of self respect. There is nothing wrong with my simply trying to pass on a little information that is true but might rain on your parade.

SKyHigh

 

Flying is a job, nothing more nothing less. Being a pilot is what I do, NOT what I am. Some of these geek-blowhards think that your life should revolve around your career.

 

Right on !! IMHO it is these same aviation religious zealots that are converting a once great career into a working hobby.

SkyHigh

 

Lab Rat, You are right on. I have had a smooth ride but after seeing what is going on I would never recommend the Airline industry as a career. I fly now purely for the money. Every job has it's drawbacks, flying has many more than most. Other than the aircraft nothing is in your control. You can't just move on like most careers, your tied to a seniority system, pay and benefits can be yanked from under your feet even long after you've retired. One screwup in your career and your fired never to be rehired. Lifestyle and pay are the only thing I've got going for me and I hope the pay stays but you just never know.