CAL or SWA
 

I have interviews coming up with both and can't decide which to go with...assuming either or both hire me. I'm trying to weigh pay (SWA) with mix of flying (CAL- dom, intl, 75/6, 777, etc).

Let me know what you think. Thanks!

CAL. more options on aircraft to fly!

Get two JOB offers then have this conversation.
Otherwise go with the first job offer.
:)

Ditto what RedEye said. First you need to get a yes from someone. If you only get one company to hire you then bingo your problem is solved. Get multiple hires than we can have this conversation........

Go with SWA, I hear the captains at CAL are hard to deal with. Just a rumor!

Are there a lot of scabs at CAL?

I've wondered how many there are. I've heard 400 to 800, but I don't know. Most are retiring or based in Houston.

I'm not sure if I've flown with any. I have an ALPA scab list, but I don't look them up. What would that do? I have a "gays in the military" approach to it; "don't ask, don't tell!" I'm not asking if they are a scab and I don't want them to tell me they are.

SWA or CAL? Go with the first offer. Personally, I'd choose CAL, if I had to choose one. Can you imagine flying a 737 on multiple legs per day domestically until you're 60 (65)? I've flown the 737 (and will again soon as CA)- it's not the nicest boeing made. Small cockpit, loud, '60's design systems panel (even the NG glass ones). CAL gives you the option of 737, 757, 767, 777, & 787. Short, medium, or long haul. Domestic or International. SWA is 737 short haul domestic. Not fun. SWA is a great company with happy employees, but I'd rather be at a legacy airline.

Neither......

Don't forget SWA does long haul domestic too. Coast to coast transcon.


I was a ramper for 11 years at CAL. It was good under Gordon. Not quite as good under Larry, but not bad. I'd love to go back once I do my time in the RJ.

I jumpseat on them every week and almost every captain I ride with has that distinguishing mark at the end his (or her) employee number. That being said, I'd say about 90% or more of them are really nice guys. It's the 1-2% that make them all look bad.

Honestly, I wouldn't even factor that into any type of decision.

BTW, my vote is SWA.:D

That distinguishing mark is not always a sign of their past history

Sorry, that is not long haul. Plus, stopping numerous times going coast to coast is not fun.

Please explain. What mark?

An alphabet character, (ie: 0034b).

Not all employees who have an alphanumeric employee number are scabs and conversely not all scabs have a letter in their employee number.

BWI-California n/s, LAS & PHX to FLA n/s, etc. Yeah, its not trans-oceanic, but they've got some serious stage lenghts.

$
 

And almost $60K more/ year than a CAL 737 Capt. Both are good choices, get hired then worry about it.

No Kidding. There are plenty of full term strikers with a letter at the end of their employee number. Call them a scab because of that number and you won't be riding the jumpseat any more. And, Matercraft, get both letters offering employment and then come back and ask the same question. In the meantime, good luck.

Only $29K/year more in the 737. CAL CA can move up to bigger planes and more money. I'd bet my future on CAL pay too.

Still short to medium haul. It's all relative, but BWI to PHX is only a few hours. I do 8 hours legs and that's not long haul. Try a 16 hour leg.

16 is long haul? -- yeah right. Singapore has an 18 hour flight!

Kidding, kidding . . . anything over 12 is loooong.

Like everyone said go to the first one that offers a job. If you get both look at the business plans and history. Every Legacy airline even in the good old days have ups and downs. They seem to find a way to furlough every 6 or 7 years (whatever the reason they just do). SWA on the other hand is rock solid and getting better. You want a place to retire from so look at the way they do business.
On paper SWA would be more solid/more money, but I can't imagine never flying international. Tough call, good luck. :rolleyes:

Does anyone know anything about the Guam base for Continental? Are they making new hires go out there? Does expressing your disinterest hurt you in the interview? How long do most guys stay out there before they come back?

CAL also has a pretty descent retirement plan (goes to 13% in 2007). It is controlled by the individual pilot in their own Swab account. It cannot be taken away like the old pension plans.

Done the long haul stuff........................b-o-r-i-n-g!

not to mention how crossing time zones gets you all screwed up.:eek:

Man you went to the wrong places! :eek:

Long haul, international flying is great. You takeoff, fly until you're hungry, eat until you're tired, sleep until you're hungry again, eat some more, then land. And you're away from the suits and terrible places like Memphis, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc. Plus, unless you're a slam-clicker, there's a lot of neat places to see and equally neat things to do. Nothing beats a 2 hour massage in Shanghi for roughly $7. The downside is the time zones kick your butt and unless you use Skype, it's expensive to call home to get your daily dose of grief from your spouse.;)

Get both offers, then worry. Otherwise, take the first offer you get. You might not get another one. Good Luck.

Most new hires are not getting Guam, they are getting EWR. Guam is pretty full now. It has some great flying, so don't be afraid to do it. You can bid out right away if you do get it. If you take the company paid move, you have to stay two years- I think.

I'm enjoying it. I'll take Amsterdam over Albany, Rome over Rochester, London over Louisville, Barcelona over Buffalo, etc. You get the picture. I did domestic for the last 10 years, I'm enjoying the international stuff.

Nah, I covered most of the "exciting" destinations...........got some neat pics & stories. That was OK, the "flying" was b-o-r-i-n-g. Check the prog. page & 5000 miles to go......yuk.

To each their own.....

I fly an MD-11 international now. I also have an interview coming up with SW. The flying doesn't sound appealing, but it's a rock solid company and great pay by current standards. Besides, I think they put something in the water to make everyone so happy---I want some of that.

Don't limit yourself to SW vs CAL---if you want a real lifestyle and money---UPS or FedEx!

No Kidding!
 

I just interviewed with them on Monday and they are a happy bunch! They made me feel like they wanted to hire me right when I walked in the door. I asked one of their 10-year captains about the contract negotiations and what the pilot "cornerstone issues" were. She just thought for a second and said that she wasn't aware of any pilot complaints and as far as the negotiations, she "just isn't worried about it." :eek:

Something in the water indeed...(I hope they hire me!:D )

Dave,

Read your posts for some time--you seem like a very decent yet somewhat idealistic guy. (Quote Seinfeld...not that there's anything wrong with that...)

The "happy" seems real, but 2/10 will be lucky to get the call. On average, 75-80% will get told "no thanks..."

And of course there aren't any cornerstone issues at SWA...everything is just "perfect". I'm sure if I asked your squadron commander he'd say the same thing about your current squadron.

You'll need to fork over some cash for your type rating if you haven't gotten it yet. If you'll do it at Higher Power at least the SWA folks will be around to cheerlead and encourage more people to apply--dropping another 8k or so into the hopper of the SWA HR department heads brother-in-law. Since you'll already have the job you can be a spectator and enjoy the show.

Also--since you are retired and won't be burdened with ANG or Reserve duty you won't get to see another interesting side of SWA...the constant push for productivity. Productivity means working...not mil leaving...and if you cannot work your duties into ONE dropped 3 day a month be prepared to "discuss" or "explain" why to your local CP. Of course--SWA "luvs" the military and wants to support our boys--but a call at home while you are on probation sends a signal...overt or not. Board regulars can argue with me on this if they'd like--but I've already stood up for one my guys on his 1 year + 1 day anniversary...he was too spooked to bring it up prior. There are currently some issues with BWI and a new FO...but don't sweat that...you are retired and won't have to see any of this.

Your past posts indicate you think airline pilots are a bunch of whiners and unions want to kill the golden goose. Not yanking your chain--seriously--hope you get the job and enjoy flying the line a couple years. Then I'd like to hear your perspective after you've flown the line a while. SWAPA has some hard working SOBs fighting for YOU. It also has some guys who will roll over and let mangement suckle the milk from their teats whenever the company says "boo" about a scary future. Your job will be to filter that info and support guys who can help take care of YOUR family and not just the company.

Those captains that are so "nice" will explain to you why you shouldn't be greedy and expect a raise or increase in benefits...as they rush for the exits with their stock. The pension you'll never have and the 401k that is tax limited are the price they paid for taking a chance on a stock bet that paid off handsomely. Do some math and see how well YOUR options will have to do for the next 17 years to come close to those returns. Then go reread Brad's posts...he's looking out for you too....

And when the kool aid wears off you'll wake up and realize that this whole dirty game is nothing but a business. SWA lobbys Congress to remove the WA--not for "luv" but for money. AA fights them not for Ft Worth, but for market share.

All that aside--if I was starting this business tomorrow SWA would be very close to the top of my list. They make money. They have fun. They know their business. But geez...don't let the beverages and smiles fool you. They'll send you flowers when your mom dies, and you can drink beers with some great crews--but this is nothing but a brutal business.

Enjoy your second career. I'd also look for a side gig...

Well hell, why even have negotiations then. Just let the company ink the same deal they have right now if they're so damn happy...

And SCABS to fly with too. I would go to SWA if you have the choice.

I wouldn't be asking questions about contracts until you get the job. Not a smart thing to do.

There are "scabs" everywhere"!

Been there, done that! They do seem to be a happy bunch. SWA always made me feel like they wanted to hire me right when I walked in the door. But they didn't.

I hope that you get the call, but don't fool yourself into believing that the atmosphere in the GO will translate into a sure thing. 75% of those who walk into LL's territory walk away disappointed.

Yes, but the concentration level varies.

Good Luck

Yep. Talked to the LOI guys after we were done, about 28% of the applicants get hired! There were 22 guys at my interview just on Tues. alone!
Now wait 4-6 weeks to hear.