Don't take it so hard. A lot of DAL guys have never been on the other end of scope. Unless the Air Force was scope restricted from flying the F/A-18 because it "belonged" to the Blue Angels. Just like we always heatedly debate quality of experience, until you've struggled through 1st year RJ pay and wondered why your peers snubbed their noses at you, then any military guy wouldn't get it, because the last time they made that kind of money for that kind of treatment they were flipping burgers.

It is really hard to collect your check all the while knowing at some point someone sold you out, and now they regret it because they hate you and because of the pressure they put on your bargaining unit your gains are minimal and fleeting.

And if anyone says that the RJs were forced upon us, I'll remind you of the date a CL600-2B19 first got a Delta paint job.

We're doing the right thing by trying to take RJ scope back and a vast majority of RJ pilots would rather be wearing a mainline uniform for a mainline check. But the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And as long as squeak squeak squeak translates to "duty of fair representation" we're s-o-l.

Simple solution - we can vote this TA down if it doesn't pass muster and then they'll literally retire before we have a contract. Maybe they should anyway if they're that selfish.

But something tells me they aren't, and we won't have to worry.

I agree most aren't. The ones that are represent a small minority relative to the 12000 pilot group. We have retirements coming up over the next 5-6 years, but not even remotely close to a majority. If we vote in a POS it will be all our faults.

Delta is looking to get rid of DCI, the only leverage they have to do that would be to exchange 70ish seat jets for 50 seaters and sunset the agreements. Otherwise, Delta management would be forced into billions of losses over the life of the contracts they set up. Plan C would be to start merging the regionals into mainline(not going to happen because ALPA would never allow that). 9E management may have screwed up but so did Delta's, now the reality of the situation is a TA with scope relief to cover these mistakes.

The best solution here is to vote No on whatever this TA is, kick DALPA out, get a new union(doesn't matter which one), and start from scratch. As I've said before, which struck a nerve with everyone, is that you won't be able to vote on a contract that doesn't have scope relief as long as ALPA is you CBA negotiator. ALPA's conflict of interest doesn't allow them to bargain without the interest of regional pilots in mind.

I just still have to wonder if the company was negotiating from the position that they'll have to buy 6000 pilots or so from a very small pool over the next 20 years...

Or if this will be a 3 year deal and it won't matter...

That is something that everyone should consider. A lot of these large RJ deals are 10 year deals with a lot of legs left on them. Hence our inability to just breach the agreements through section 1 negotiation.

However - as I've said before - a lot of the CRJ-900s are fully owned by Delta and are leased back to the DCI carriers. These airplanes would be considered low hanging fruit. Just look what happened to Freedom in JFK with their -900s. As soon as the relationship between DAL and YV soured those airplanes were divided between 3 carriers and are still there - LR tail numbers and all. They could be brought back in house just as easily. Just need to find some pilots with RJ experience to set up a training department. Theres obviously none of those at DAL...

Talking about scope. I was flying with a CA a while ago and a Delta guy asked to sit in the jump with us. I was happy to say yes and the CA was good with it.....Until, he saw the take back scope sticker he had on his flightbag.
To say my CA went from cool to a prick in a second would be underestimating it. He told the jumper that the only way he will get on "his" airplane is if he goes and removes his sticker. I was shocked. The jumper not knowing if he was joking took went out an took off the sticker and came back. As soon as that was over my CA welcomed him into the jump and acted super cool the whole flight.
I walked the jumper up the jetway and continued to apologize over an over for my CA actions. Now that CA is 63 years old. He ranted the whole trip about the scope issue.
I for one, want you to take back all scope and be with a mainline airline. Giving up anymore would be tragic to everyone.

Great googly moogly this thread has gone stupid this morning.

1. Any larger jets allowed will be shot down in a heartbeat.

2. Pinnacle wants the larger jet payrates so they can fly those for other carriers down the road. If what I'm hearing is correct, the TA is going to include a pretty massive pulldown of DCI over the next few years.

3. Wait until the actual details of the TA come out. I'd be willing to bet we only have another day to wait.

Until then you're just getting wound around the axle on a stupid internet argument.

OK 80,

Blah, Blah, Blah, What are you hearing!?! Blah, Blah Blah!:D:D

We need more rumors!!:rolleyes:

Denny

Wha? You don't like listening to someone stroll into the sanctuary and start preaching to the choir without seemingly knowing what the sermon was before? Or hearing the awesome section one testimonies of the choir?

http://copyblogger.com/images/choir.jpg

:D