If that's how they did it, why are they (FDX, UPS, SWA) still below our C2K 2004 rates (by a long shot) even though they never went bankrupt and have been profitable companies that entire time?

About $260 million, not including that portion paid in 2012.

Are you saying that FDX, UPS, and SWA pilots owe their success at the bargaining table to their scope clauses? Really? You don't think it has anything to do with a business model that produces consistent profits?

That is an excellent question, and one for which you will never get an answer here...

I have friends at FDX, and none of them ever mentioned those single engine turboprop airplanes with FedEx on the side as being in their fleet.... Maybe they didn't know about them...

If DCI was operating C208Bs... I'd celebrate.

Why are we below our C2K rates?

SWA's business model doesn't include outsourcing their core product.

And SWA pilots don't have to trade jets for outsourcing nor hear from SWAPA that there is no way SWA pilots could fly 76 seaters profitably and therefore they need to be outsourced.

It's just not a problem they have to deal with.

And which would you rather have, their scope clause or ours?

Pretty simple answer...economics and leverage.

For the 5 years leading up to C2K Delta had a pre-tax income of $7.4 Billion dollars. Our margin peaked in 1998 at 12%, and averaged well north of 10% for that time. For the 5 years leading up to C2012 Delta had a pre-tax income of $1.1 billion. Our pre-tax margin averaged 3.7% for that time. Oh, and those numbers for C2K are for a Delta standalone operation. Adding in NWA takes the total profit to well over $10 billion.

Having a company with C2K style economics makes C2K style wages achievable.

In C2K we had an up pattern in compensation for almost every major player. UAL (and surprisingly USAirways with their "me too" clause) were well ahead of us in negotiations that concluded shortly before we finished ours. In C2012 we have a mixed pattern, with everyone except FedEx, UPS and SWA behind us.

I know you weren't around for C2k so you don't have the context of how it was achieved. The contract history that you received last year has this stuff in it.

My guess is because no one else is anywhere close to them. Unfortunately, until other pilot groups start contributing to restoration(UCAL, AA, UsAir, JB, VA, and NK to name a few) management and the NMB will likely consider us as front runners in industry leading pay. Like it or not, I think that's how they view it. JMHO.

WRT SWAPA's scope, one has to wonder whether it has ever been challenged. AT had around 6-8 CRJ200's being operated on a at risk contract by Skywest. That operation was ceased, but I wonder how much Skywest fought SWA if at all. I truly do wonder if SWA management has ever pushed for outsourcing.