Vacation per pilot at DAL is roughly 4 weeks/year. Increase it by :15.
10,500 x :15 x 28 = 73,500 hours

DAL Pilots spend approx 6 days per year at training. Increase it by :30.
10,500 x :30 x 6 = 31,500 hours

73,500 + 31,500 = 105,000 / 12 months = 8,750 hours

8750 / 87* hours = 100.57 = 101 MORE pilots needed for just those 2 provisions.

72 hours is the projected gain from the staffing formula changes.

So between staffing formula and vaca/trng pay increases we have wiped out well over half of what they are claiming in savings from the 300 number....

Don't forget that you are still full once you hit ALV, and no longer will all reserves be forced to fly up to the lineholder ALV... A reserve will be full at their individually calculated ALV..... Combine that with the increased values for VAC/TRNG and a reserve ALV will often be lower than the normal ALV for 5-6 months per year.


*The 87 is the official ALPA distributed number... using a lower divisor of 75:00 means it would be 117 pilots needed.


This is an extremely complex set of changes and getting hung up on a small piece of it is not good. It still might not stack up to what we want as a group, but make sure we evaluate it in its entirety and in light of the reality of our peers and the RLA/NMB. Still can't be sure I'm voting yes, its a daily swing for me too.

 

At least we can agree on the bolded part above. Historically, complex formulas, ratios and such have not panned out well for this pilot group.

When things don't work out all we get is "sorry" (if that). We should not be offering ALV + 15, more permanent large RJ's replacing small inefficient RJ's that will go away on their own, or any other work rule concessions to fix managements problems.

What is being offered is not even close to what this contract should be and the wrong direction in my opinion. There is no going back if it is passed. The damage, stagnation, and frustration will be permanent.

 

Your calculation of 100-117 additional pilots is correct if every pilot reduced his monthly block hours by the respective increase in time paid per day. I doubt that will be the behavior. Many (most?) pilots will still fly as much as they can around vacation/training for the additional $$.

So I'm clear, the increase in training and vacation days is good. Not good enough for me, but the increase is good.

 

Remember that VAC/TRNG is pay and credit, so pilots are still restricted to ALV +15, they will hit that ceiling that much sooner and maybe not have enough room to pick up a WS with the higher values... Yes, I know the swap board is an option to evade that, but I haven't seen nearly the trip options on the the swap board that you see in open time.

 

Shiz,

I found where Training is pay and credit. Can't find where vacation is pay and credit - previously was pay, no credit - this is important - just reread it and can't find the statement pay and credit for vacation.

 

Let's reject this TA so we don't have to hire any 717 F/O's or create new Capt. positions. We also don't need a pay raise any time soon. This is a 1 time deal, when it's rejected it's gone forever. The company will spend the $400 mil on keeping and expanding the existing RJ fleet. Look at the big picture and quit micro managing this TA. Never mind, I might as well be posting this on "real no sh!!t stories of martians"

 

Big deal. Its gone forever, lol. Who cares, let the other airlines kick our butts. Maybe RA/mngmt will value us better next time and offer us a fair deal.

Finis, please.

TEN

 

You also have to consider that we are getting a 4% raise 6 month before the amendable date and almost a 13% total raise at the amendable date. Best case in a full blow section 6 is maybe getting a raise 18 months after the amendable date. Just look at history. By the time a normal section 6 plays out we will be exchanging openers for our next TA. I know I know I know but this deal is not the end of the world people. If you think the risk/reward is a slam dunk in our favor than you are fooling yourself. I'm on the fence but starting to lean towards yes.

 

WRT your numbers--have you factored in the near certainly of skyrocketing inflation?

Because you can rest assured RA has factored it into his numbers.

 

I posted this before the TA was announced was how would Wall Street view this contract. Well, so far the vote is Stock Market (DJIA) in the two weeks since the TA was announced - DOWN 3.0%. DAL stock - UP 7.2%. Food for thought.