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Carl Spackler 06-06-2012 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by ReasonableMan (Post 1206132)
I didn't say TELL you, I said they have SHOWN you their hand and you still somehow rationalize to your self that they are bluffing. That my fine sir is ridiculous insanity.

They've SHOWN you nothing. They've only TOLD you and our "union" what they want us to know. Showing us their hand would involve a complete opening of the books and the recordings of the strategic planning meetings at the board of director level. I know you know that hasn't happened, therefore we've been shown nothing.

Clamp's poker analogy is spot on. If you've ever played a hand for really big money, you know exactly the pressure he's talking about. It will either force you to crack under it, or take educated risks. It appears to me that far too many Delta pilots are cracking under the negligible pressure of a bird in the hand before Section 6 even begins.

Carl

ReasonableMan 06-06-2012 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1206183)
They've SHOWN you nothing. They've only TOLD you and our "union" what they want us to know. Showing us their hand would involve a complete opening of the books and the recordings of the strategic planning meetings at the board of director level. I know you know that hasn't happened, therefore we've been shown nothing.

Clamp's poker analogy is spot on. If you've ever played a hand for really big money, you know exactly the pressure he's talking about. It will either force you to crack under it, or take educated risks. It appears to me that far too many Delta pilots are cracking under the negligible pressure of a bird in the hand before Section 6 even begins.

Carl

I'm sorry but if a bear tells me/shows me either way demonstrates intent to do something I know will not turn out in my favor, I gotta believe it purely based on the position of leverage it has over me. If I call it's bluff and it makes good on its promise, I'm screwed. In poker, neither player is at a position of dominance over the other. That's the difference. I only lose money that I am willing to lose anyway which is why I agreed to the game in the first place. I, along with other DAL pilots don't gamble my lifestyle or that of my family's away based upon a hunch. This is not a poker game. This is real life and I am not willing to throw back something (quit my day job) that I am still making gains (some significant) with HOPES of winning the lottery.

tsquare 06-06-2012 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble (Post 1205982)
Wow. The we will get them next time rational.

Not really my intent. I said a long time ago that the timing on this contract wrt Delta's financial health was bad. If one views this as an extension, the timing is better. Again, I choose a half full glass, and you are of course free to do otherwise, but in my mind this is a pretty good extension that will synch up our timing with DAL's.

tsquare 06-06-2012 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1206139)
How does that factor in with displacements over the next year due to the new work rules?

Like the ones into the left seat of the 717 from the right seat of......

tsquare 06-06-2012 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1206158)
And you would expect them to say????? "Management indicated ton us that they have no other plans should we vote this down. The told us in no-uncertain terms that they absolutely need us to approve this deal or they are screwed."
Gmafb, bud. You are being swindled.


Can you ever end a post without being vulgar?

Carl Spackler 06-06-2012 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by ReasonableMan (Post 1206145)
This quote was directly from the NC and MEC:

"This tentative agreement allows Delta to pursue its preferred business plan but at the same time was the impetus for reaching an early agreement that provides significant benefits for the Delta pilots. If the cost of doing so exceeds the parameters of their overall plan, they have indicated that they will choose another course. Put another way, they have a Plan B that does not involve negotiating with ALPA."

Does that sound like DAL is going to raise the TA pay and then send it back?...before you answer, read the last line again.

If you try to right it off as scare tactics by DALPA or DAL, then that is my definition of ridiculous insanity.

These are not DALPA scare tactics, they are management scare tactics. Did you think management would NOT use scare tactics? Serious question!

Scare tactics cost management nothing! Campbell was hired for this express purpose. How can you not see this?

Carl

flyguy1 06-06-2012 06:28 AM

The early out program is designed to offset the staffing decrease of 250 due to the ALV+15.

Carl Spackler 06-06-2012 06:30 AM


Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1206198)
Not really my intent. I said a long time ago that the timing on this contract wrt Delta's financial health was bad. If one views this as an extension, the timing is better. Again, I choose a half full glass, and you are of course free to do otherwise, but in my mind this is a pretty good extension that will synch up our timing with DAL's.

I understand you made that prediction a long time ago, but you sound like you think it was a correct prediction. Is that what you're saying? :confused:

Carl

80ktsClamp 06-06-2012 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by ReasonableMan (Post 1206145)

If you try to right it off as scare tactics by DALPA or DAL, then that is my definition of ridiculous insanity.

Think about how many statements both the company and the union have made which have turned out to be either in error or directly misleading. Then readdress what you just said.

Besides, the company wants this TA through quickly because it is a great deal for them. Why would they show their cards and say "you know, you guys could have done way better. Why don't you come back to the table?"

Oh, and the union has acknowledged the 300 pilot decrease numerous times, and has also stated that the TA will only result in around 200 additional pilot positions despite taking delivery of 88 airplanes.

Whoops.

80ktsClamp 06-06-2012 06:38 AM


Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1206200)
Can you ever end a post without being vulgar?

pot meet kettle, t. (Mr. donut)


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