I'm trying to figure out what your post means. What are these newer guys doing? What could they do differently? I fly the majority of my descents flight idle in VNAV. It's not that I can't do it any other way, it's just my preferred method.

 

I'm just saying that most of our new folks don't know how to plan their own descent. They have never been taught how. They only know VNAV which works OK most of the time, but if the VNAV is not behaving then they don't know what to do. How many times have you seen a guy pull the boards because he is 10 knots fast and the box says "drag required"? Never mind that he/she is 50 miles from the fix and could easily fix it without vibrating the pax and F/A's. How many times have you seen a guy NOT put in any winds, then lets VNAV start down with a huge headwind way to soon? 5 minutes later the jet is way slow and up comes the power.
I use VNAV about 50% of the time too, but I'm always backing it up with a little math in my head to make sure that it will be efficient. The new hires of today have not been properly taught how to manage their energy and plan an old school descent. I consider this to be a school house failure and I don't see it getting any better in the next 10 to 20 years.

 

I'm a 2000 hire and still in the right seat. I VS a lot and manage descents just fine. In fact I'd say smoother than VNAV. However I've flown with many Captains that get wrapped around the axle when I'm not in VNAV.

I am a former MD guy and prefer to fly that way. Just pointing out that there are quite a few Captains that can't fly out of VNAV and do the same things you describe these newbies doing.

 

ASpilot,
You are correct. I don't mean to pick on our new folks. I know there are many Captains who are so lazy from years and years and years of VNAV that they are out of their comfy box if a guy presses V/S! You know the old saying - when the guy sitting to your left is driving you nuts becasue you know you can do the job better than him - it's time to upgrade!
Like you, I use V/S a lot. I also use CWS a lot. Want to make a new F/O's eye brows go up? Press CWS and watch what happens - they have no idea what that button does, they have no idea how to plan there own descent and like I said earlier, that is a training issue. Sort of my pet peeve I guess. What is it going to be like around here in 10 years when todays new folks become tomorrows Captains? Crusty old guys like you and me will be the only one's left who have a clue how to manage our energy and plan a descent.
Your background from the MadDog and my background from the MudHen gave us the experience and the tools we use today. Our new folk and some of our old guys (who spent the last 15-20 years on the 400) don't have it. The VNAV works most of the time... but what if it doesn't...

 

I can't stand it when pilots use the boards when it is obvious that they are not needed such as the example given. Do you show these new guys how to use the other options or how to program a correct VNAV decent? I understand that they should be shown how to do this in training which they probably are, but I think there is a difference between SOP and technique. I usually show the FO or sometimes Captain how it works and then let them decide how they want to fly the plane. Everyone does it different and although it makes me cringe sometimes I am sure I make others do the same when I don't do it their way.

 

They may be a little rusty since they've been furloughed for several years and they probably listen to too much of that "rock-n-roll".

 

It won't be a factor in ten years when the automation has replaced one or both of us

And yes that's a facetious comment. But with a little factual added in

 

Wow, this thread really got derailed. "Descents For Dummies!". I love it. Let's not make the mod close her own thread for Pete's sake.