The logic of our agreement states that we gave away more large Rj's.

T, why have your posts gotten more rude and condescending. Seriously, whatever happened to a civil debate? Your attitude on here is why people avoid the Dalpa forums.


38%er

Maybe in six months those that voted yes on it will look back and say to themselves, "that wasn't really that great a deal, was it".

My only hope for future is that DPA or some other group could replace ALPA.

Time to do as above poster, enjoy what is left of my career and try and figure out a real money making venture on the side to alleviate the frustration with pay rates and mediocrity.

Personally, I doubt DPA is the solution anymore after TK's little ALPA-forced abortion comparison. I think moving forward the culture needs to change to where DALPA answer to its' members rather than DALPA signing business-related confidentially agreements and signing MOUs/LOAs without member ratification.

I think going forward it will boil down to which reps we decide to keep in and which reps we decide to send packing. Personally I would like to see a lot of "new blood" before C2015, but that's just me.

We leave ALPA eventually. It's mathematical certainty. ALPA is 38 airlines with only 2 majors represented. If only one more major airline leaves then CAPA will represent more airline pilots than ALPA. ALPA will represent all the regionals and CAPA will represent all the majors.

In hindsight, my oversimplification of the delta ta vote is that the average age of the delta pilots is around 53ish. The company knows this and threw some money towards them gaining the necessary votes. These guys aren't trying to gain or prove anything. They just want more money before they retire. From that standpoint the agreement is "good" to them. But simple logic would dictate that this type of contract cannot be repeated, although it has, because eventually we will be jobless.

Maybe this will cheer ts up. Don't post angry!

Oversimplification is not the description I would use. I think your view is somewhere between arrogant and idiotic. Pilots over 50 actually still have brains and 62% of your fellow pilots thought this was a good enough deal to vote yes on. Get over it and move on.

There was a lot of "new blood" after the JCBA up through recently. 1/3 of the LEC reps have elections every year, so full turnover could occur in 3 years... If DPA has such a "popular platform" then there could be reps in every base with the aim to fix the issues that they see as problems.

Could it be that 94% of pilots are actually engaged in the process? The 58% of the total pilot group that voted in favor of this must see value in what ALPA is doing.

I think we will see turnover constantly, and I expect that everyone who decides to run and serve the pilot groups will do the best they possibly can for the pilots.... Just like what the current reps are doing.

Not retarded by any means. Just fiscally, emotionally, and testicularly challenged.

62% followed DALPA off the cliff.

Pathetic.

OK.. I will try to go back to the old tsquare and be more civil. But please, while you are vilifying me, look at Bacon Bits' post above and tell me how I should respond to THAT....

Let's talk about your first statement. "The 'logic' of our agreement states that we gave away more large RJs".

This is true, but it is only a small portion of the argument as a whole. The problem here is that many.. including you.. have viewed this as THE only thing that matters and the only thing that should be driving the agreement. So you say that we sold out, or whatever.. on this agreement... Be pragmatic about this.

And I will caveat everything that I say going forward with this statement: I believe we are underpaid.. I believe that the proliferation of RJs is wrong, and the two things frankly suck.

But it is what it is. We all want to go back to a time when we wold make a Cadillac on each trip yada yada yada. That ain't gonna happen folks.. at least not all in one bite. To just say no, and hope that it will is delusional, and self destructive. It doesn't have to be either/or, but to make an all or nothing statement will more than likely end up with nothing. Is THAT what you want?

So where do we want to go, and how do we get there? We cannot just demand, and have any certainty that management is gonna give us what we want.. just because we feel that we deserve it. We do not have that kind of leverage no matter what you think the company can afford. No one can PROVE that. Some leverage can be quantified, some cannot. Whether or not management can "afford" to give us what we deserve is not something we can bank on being a leverable idea.

Back to the RJs. I HATE seeing them in connection colors. Hate it. They SHOULD be DAL liveries. But they aren't. Those airplanes were sold on earlier agreements to the lowest bidders, and they weren't us. So they are gone. I need for you to explain to me how it is that you think we can get them back here with any sort of value attached to them for DAL mainline pilots. Even cocktail napkin math will show you that we cannot fly them for any hourly rate approaching what DCI flies them for.. and even if we COULD, it will be a new hire CA position. Will a 7 year DAL pilot fly captain on those things for $79/hr? Would you? Do you really want to tank pay and retirement, and working conditions for THAT??? Let them go.. and let's get value for what we can. This agreement did just that, and those things are capped. IF the company wants more of them.. they will have to pony up something extraordinary. And FWIW, I will vote no on anything going forward that increases number of seats on RJs... We won here. Big time. OR would you rather go the way of APA? Don't you find it interesting that UCal is demonizing us for capping the RJs AND getting significant pay increases? Why is that? THINK about it....

Sorry for the rambling post. Focus on the end game and not a single move, and I really think you will see that getting wrapped around the axle about RJs will hold us back more than moving us forward.

You are a bitter irrational man. I will make $800 more next month than I would have had you won the day. We will be reducing the number of RJs, and you will soon have a 717 that you might be able to fly captain on for, which I might add, will pay more than a 747 at other airlines. It was a pure unemotional business decision.

As far as your testicular comment, that is the last kind of argument that one who has no argument can make. The DAL pilots won, despite your best efforts. Thank goodness.