There will always be guys who rationalize owning something TRULY CRAP by claiming it's better than NOTHING!


JJ

I once had someone try to give me a free t shirt at a 10k race and it had all kinds of logos all over it and was very poorly made. Yeah, it was free but it had no value so I didn't take one. There were tons of people trying to get extras to take home but for what? Do you really need ten free garbage t shirts from one of these events? I didn't even want one. Yes it might be free or even cheap but it has no value.

A new low. Bluejet pilots compare themselves to Twinkie makers. Have some pride man, we don't make Twinkies but you are a Ding Dong.

It's embarrassing isn't it. This unfortunate individual doesn't know how stupid he appears. This is a Major Airline Pilot forum. And, this guy is trying to defend sub par benefits by reminding us how bad laid off blue collar twinkly makers have it.

Mgmt must love him while his peers hate his kind for degrading the profession.


JJ

Yep, I wonder how many other pilot groups compare themselves to Twinkie makers? I bet I know the aswer.

Well, many of us try to offer the perspective daily and got involved in one or both union drives. We are commited to a CBA and an end to managment malfeasance. At the end of the day, the JB hiring model proved effective by having more pilots vote against the union than for it. The vote was closer last time - and perhaps the tipping point is here.

You can talk until you are blue in the face, but it often comes down to management making enough mistakes that even the colossally stubborn start revisiting their position. On the other hand there is no guarantee that recognition of the true "relationship" will ever unify enough of the group to move to a more balanced arena.

Incorrect. I have several crap t-shirts from my former employer, and they make excellent cleaning rags. Nothing like cleaning toilets with a "Simply the Best" t-shirt.....

Dont forget the travel mug we got for Christmas or whatever it was around 2010 or so.

hold up there, you are comparing jb healthcare to a t shirt that you turn into a cleaning rag? I think I have heard it all now. Have a little respect for yourself and fellow aviators.

I helped my father-in-law work on his septic tank in my "simply the best" (pinnacle) T-shirt. Worked great. Other pinnacle t-shirts are great for painting, landscaping, wiping your pinnacle....

How do you expect anyone to take you serious? That's not what he said or meant.

If that's what you got from that, no one on this planet can help you....

My Fav is the JB pilots generate revenue that management uses for A4A membership then can lobby against JB pilots in Congress... that is classic!!

You've got to have political presence in DC, otherwise you are just a wage slave flying jets......

As crappy as the JCBA TA is.... it was done with a White House picket and working with the nmb.... unless you Blue pilots can do that, you are not going to get far.....


Looks like the Honeymoon is over.... did the JB pilots think they were really that special and American business and Wall St. (read Capital) was suddenly benevolent to labor. bwahaha.

Does anyone know the real numbers... the difference between what you are worth and how much you actually get paid. The number would shock you......

How do YOU know the REAL numbers?

Is it 8? 3.1415927?

Is there really a number? Can you at least tell me if I am getting close.

I don't...but that is why the APA hires ALPA's E&FA.... yet the basic tenant of capitalism is to convince or passively force wage slaves to work for less than they are worth. JB management does this with kool aid and hired consultants to smooth talk the pilots. I mean at one point JB pilots were cleaning the cabin for free!!! (still are??)

So the difference in what you are worth is used for profits, investors and golden parachutes for the exec team.... if you have a CBA then you are getting paid closer to what you are worth and the investors and Exec team get less.... it is really that simple and nothing new......

Direct relationship... anyone that believes that deserves what they get.. and JB pilots have been getting less and less over the years.

There is no career pilot airline that doesn't have work place democracy... JB pilots are fools for thinking one exist....

Until JB pilots can be at the table and contribute to the terms in which they fly jets they aren't professionals. I know that doesn't go over well, but consider what makes a professional. Worrying about your compensation and healthcare while on the job isn't very professional. The PVC doesn't count.

Master loves you..... now get back to work......

(sorry for the hard post, but damn.... wish you guys luck... you need it!!)

I hear ya. Nobody can help someone that will continue to accept substandard wages and benefits year after year just to say you have a job right?

1 million dollars!!!! That's my number who's with me!!!

This is an important concept that tends to escape pilots in general. We just can't conceive of actually having to (heaven forbid!) WORK for a living.

Oh, the horror! The HORROR!

if you have a CBA then you are getting paid closer to what you are worth and the investors and Exec team get less.... it is really that simple and nothing new......



Really, Amerijet has a CBA, and they are one of the lowest paid B767 pilot groups on the Planet!

Really? If they had no CBA would they be making less?

They have a CBA so good or bad they negotiated their own rates.

Awesome. JetBlue pilots compare themselves to Twinkie makers and now a third rate freight hauler. Pull your pants up and have a backbone.

Yes but we have culture and an entire thread dedicated to how great JetBlue is.

Meanwhile a captain was recently fired without due process based on a new FO's comment. Healthcare, well we don't really have any, was gutted. Instructor pay was just cut from 90 hours to 70 hours, you will soon fly a 321 for the same pay as a 320 because you weren't able to negotiate. The director of Ops, during the FLL healthcare meeting stated the company wanted to change 15C, after being shown they lied about the content, has decided that changing the document to protect the bottom 50% of pilots in the even of a merger or acquisition is no longer necessary.

Why any of you are considering working for JetBlue is mind boggling particularly when the legacy carriers will be hiring early next year.

Well said. The truth is often painful.

What a $hithole.

JB management just waiting for a buyer.....

had I known all of this I would have never in a million years come to jb. To think there are people that know this and are still coming is actually kind of scary. I would bet if they offered 10 dollars an hour there would still be people lining up.

1. I want to work for a company that sells its own tickets. (Get out of the regionals.)
2. I have a job offer in hand from JetBlue.
3. There's no guarantee of a job at a legacy, even when they do hire.
(I could screw up the interview, or not even get an interview.)

Contrary to what you guys are suggesting, it would be stupid of someone to turn down a job that is better than their current one in hopes of an even better job down the road that isn't guaranteed. (If JetBlue paid $10 an hour and had worse QOL, it wouldn't be an improvement, and personally, I wouldn't have applied.)

Man, you guys must do great in Vegas! I'm playing it safe, and not doubling down.

If you want JetBlue to be better, you should be encouraging intelligent and motivated people to come there to help in your cause. Discouraging people from coming only makes things worse for you. Of course, if you don't want to work to make things better, you should just do everyone a favor and go somewhere else.

Southerner within a week of coming to JetBlue the airline will have you so brainwashed you'll be on this board screaming how a union will ruin the culture, how the retirement really is 13%, how the benefits and disability are industry standard and, lastly, how you are protected with your PEA.

You are so absolutely clueless that's it's incredible you even comment.

We do want educated pilots to join the ranks. But because of experience we all know how baby blues drink the Kool-aid which at this point hurts our efforts to gain a CBA. Add to this most regional pilots lack of understanding as to what level of support ALPA provided and our efforts are hindered further.

We don't want and can't afford the "happy to be here crowd" any longer. Most of us have 8,10, 12 years in already and having the above mentioned settling for less hurts us more.

You're right. You shouldn't try to bring people to your side. If you demean them and treat them like idiots for choosing to come to your airline, they are more likely to vote in the way you want them to. Smart.

When a pilot gets hired by DAL,FedEx,UAL,CAL,SWA etc. they are proud of their airline but also go into it knowing they are a union shop.

Jetblue hires pilots who choose Jetblue because of culture and non-union.

You arrive at Jetblue predisposed to be anti-union. Because you are new and blindly trust management you read and believe all their propaganda.

What does this mean for the rest of us? A solid no vote.

FNG320 takes copious notes of what management has said, what the union has said and what the outcomes have been. Ask him what the vote totals were the past two times. Ask him how many new pilots voted NO in the past two elections. We have this information because pilots were polled. They openly admitted they believed the company propaganda.

Where has this gotten us today? Below average in EVERY measurable category.

None of us have anything against you.

Jetblue rants
 

I freely admit my only information I have is what I've read on here, and what my friends who work there tell me. I come from a union airline, and I'm open to voting for a CBA.

My only point is that calling me stupid for choosing to come there is not likely to make me want to vote your way.

Is there any truth to the rumor that for the next pay rate update the company has added VA pay rates into the mix in order to counter the new contract at Delta and avoid having to give out a raise?

Guys, I know it probably gets old having to say the same things over and over to the new guys coming in on why a CBA is a good thing, how the PEA doesn't really protect (or if it does, it's going to cost each pilot a mint to make it do so) and how it's a shell numbers game to make the retirement "look good" on the balance sheet. However, if you can't do so anymore because you're worn down and wind up just demeaning or insulting guys, step back and let others take over. You're only going to hurt the cause. Even more so than guys coming in from a non-union stance. If someone's already pre-disposed to being non-union, calling them names, insulting their intelligence and telling them they don't know anything isn't going to suddenly win them over.

Everyone comes to jetblue with hopes that things are as rosy as they imagine. Was it any different when you were in indoc?

Jetblue was even FURTHER behind the rest of the industry in terms of pay/benefits when people came here 8-12yrs ago.

That's what I'm talking about. 10 years ago the juice was flowing and we were mainlining it. JetBlue could do no wrong.

Over time as the layers of the onion peel the truth becomes apparent. Back then we weren't voting for a union and the promise of change was taken at face value. Today the promise has placed us at the bottom. What new hires do for JetBlue is dilute the pool further. Flight ops is acutely aware of what happens when "happy to be here" are hired. We, as seasoned employees, need to make sure new hires are well aware of what the JetBlue reality is. By not doing so we screw ourselves further. JetBlue pilots cannot afford further reductions in pay, benefits, disability, protections etc particularly when on our backs JetBlue is making RECORD Profits.

I agree, however when people come out of the gate insulting the new hires you immediate shut them down and they stop listening. I'd wager a lot of the guys posting over in the poolies thread have landed on most guys "blocked" list because all they do is tell the incoming new hires they don't know anything, they're hyped on blue juice and they're dragging down the industry. Not very constructive to the cause, IMO. Now, what they're saying might be true. No doubt guys ARE hyped on blue juice when they come through the door. Toss in a dose of Stockholm Syndrome coming from a horrible regional carrier, and it gets even worse. Beating them over the head with insults only serves to push them even further to the management side.

It's obviously not too bad as they "attracted" you as a newhire! :D

I disagree with the assumption that something will have to change to "attract and retain".

Jetblue has proven, despite 10% attrition, the changes perceived by the pilot group were in fact cost neutral.

The only way affect change is with a CBA which comes full circle to the talent being attracted.