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Jetblue rants
A few "poolie" related highlights from the monthly pilot conference call with COO: - Expecting 6-7% ASM growth for 2013. - New service JFK-ABQ announced (At the same time, reductions for BUR and PIT were also announced on company website). - Hinted some FLL growth probable in the future. - Possible 3 additional E190 deliveries for 2013. These growth airplanes would also be available to support any issues with A321 deliveries that are scheduled to begin October 2013. This would mean 30 additional new hires for 2013 on top of current plans. - Expecting hiring window to open early 2013. - Bluedart program being revamped, no details provided. Overall, painted a somewhat rosy picture, but things could change at any time. {Break} Highlights somewhat unrelated to hiring/class dates for those who can't get their blue pilots fix right now: - Expect to hear decision on yearly pay review in next couple weeks. - With looming pilot shortage, expect to see increases in compensation going forward to help with pilot retention/attraction. - ALPA only wants in our pockets and wouldn't care about us since we'd be a Tier B carrier. - Singled out one of our pilot bases as having poor attitudes. - Company seems to be leaning towards denying proposed change to provide international pay override to all international destinations, collecting cost data on it soon. It was noted that a lot of our international destinations, such as STT, SXM, etc, are not very challenging, compared to other places that are. All I can say on that one is wow. - Lots of talks with Airbus about wide range of topics. Sharklet retrofits, A320 neos, 2 aisle airplanes, etc. Remember, I'm just the messenger. *** is up with no international override? Too easy?! I'd like to see Rob fly the plane into STI in the middle of the night with the fog rolling in. GFY! The recent PVC survey had 98%+ response that we should be paid international override for these destinations. Sadly, it just proves how little influence the PVC has, despite all their efforts. I do believe the PVC has some good people on it, but the company doesnt give a crap. |
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
(Post 1293374)
This was the recent COO call cut and pasted from another thread (I didnt actually hear the call).
*** is up with no international override? Too easy?! I'd like to see Rob fly the plane into STI in the middle of the night with the fog rolling in. GFY! The recent PVC survey had 98%+ response that we should be paid international override for these destinations. Sadly, it just proves how little influence the PVC has, despite all their efforts. I do believe the PVC has some good people on it, but the company doesnt give a crap. SS was the one who fielded the question, but I agree 100%. Said our international flying doesn't quite compare to Middle East or Africa flying. I haven't flown in either of those places, but our international flying is certainly no walk in the park and presents its own unique challenges. I think it's crazy that bias can play a role in the decision. They're international destinations, stop playing games. You're right, it really does go to show you how little power the student council, sorry PVC, has over things. |
Lets be very clear about the "FLL" pilots comments. During the base meeting the FLL pilots pointed out the shortfalls of the insurance changes, the limits to disability and the comparisons of JetBlue insurance compared to other carriers and even the lack of merger protection in the PEA. At each turn the company spin was met with factual data proving how far behind we were and unprotected the pilot group was.
JetBlue leadership was unhappy about being called out while having their "facts" disputed by actual data. Subsequent base meetings no longer provided a format to publicly as questions. In essence the leadership representatives were caught lying about our benefits. |
Originally Posted by benzoate
(Post 1293391)
Subsequent base meetings no longer provided a format to publicly as questions. In essence the leadership representatives were caught lying about our benefits.
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when is the merger with Virgin being announced?
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Originally Posted by PruneJuice
(Post 1293707)
when is the merger with Virgin being announced?
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Originally Posted by Socal Approach
(Post 1293717)
Virgin America and jetBlue would like to keep it underwraps until 1st quarter 2013 when they (VX) name their 53rd aircraft "VirginBlue" as a hint to the flying public.
http://www.visitingphx.com/pnpamericanblue.jpg |
Now you know why AA ordered all those Airbii.
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Originally Posted by Moby Dick
(Post 1293752)
Now you know why AA ordered all those Airbii.
Sad, but the part do fit. Just my opinion...... FNG |
A few "poolie" related highlights from the monthly pilot conference call with COO:
- Expecting 6-7% ASM growth for 2013. - New service JFK-ABQ announced (At the same time, reductions for BUR and PIT were also announced on company website). - Hinted some FLL growth probable in the future. - Possible 3 additional E190 deliveries for 2013. These growth airplanes would also be available to support any issues with A321 deliveries that are scheduled to begin October 2013. This would mean 30 additional new hires for 2013 on top of current plans. - Expecting hiring window to open early 2013. - Bluedart program being revamped, no details provided. Overall, painted a somewhat rosy picture, but things could change at any time. For the poolies/new hires. Don't forget that JetBlue retirements for the next 20 years are nearly flat and at very low numbers. We are talking about low double digit retirements for at least 10 years and not much better than that. A new hire today most likely will need 20 years before they upgrade to the left seat. (my estimate). Just my opinion...... FNG |
Originally Posted by ExpectDirect
(Post 1293387)
SS was the one who fielded the question, but I agree 100%. Said our international flying doesn't quite compare to Middle East or Africa flying. I haven't flown in either of those places, but our international flying is certainly no walk in the park and presents its own unique challenges. I think it's crazy that bias can play a role in the decision. They're international destinations, stop playing games.
You're right, it really does go to show you how little power the student council, sorry PVC, has over things. |
Originally Posted by FNG320
(Post 1293860)
Plus buying JetBlue would give them access to a fully up and running training department, AQP program and 4 new simulators and building. Plus they would get the E190s to farm out to Eagle or other regional carriers that fly for AA in the future.
Sad, but the part do fit. Just my opinion...... FNG Your service would automatically go to the lowest common denominator. And another unique airline culture would be lost. Not everyone may agree, but you have to admit that B6 and VX tried to bring a new paradigm to US air transportation. |
I love the culture comment. That's Jetblues way of justifying charging between $12,000 and $14,000 per year on health insurance.
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Originally Posted by benzoate
(Post 1293997)
I love the culture comment. That's Jetblues way of justifying charging between $12,000 and $14,000 per year on health insurance.
Perhaps you would like the new medical plan 18,500 Hostess employees received yesterday |
Post of the year!!!
Originally Posted by ibriveadus
(Post 1294912)
You must really be sick.
Perhaps you would like the new medical plan 18,500 Hostess employees received yesterday More over jetBlue is hardly Bankrupt! In fact we have posted record profits. Yet some how, the company bean counters find a reason to NOT pay us the agreed to wage set. They also found it profitable to raise the ins. premiums by 300%. Comparing a work group at a bankrupt company that makes hoho's and ding dongs to highly skilled, educated professionals at a very profitable company is beyond scope. |
Ha! You said ding dongs!
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Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 1294955)
Ha! You said ding dongs!
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I eat ding dongs when I play ping pong. So long.
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Welcome to the land of crap insurance, my wife had kidney surgery this year and we've spent at least $8,000 out of pocket, the guy at walmart has better insurance than us now....
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Originally Posted by Moby Dick
(Post 1293928)
Gotta tell you it would be sad to see the AA Borg absorb you for a couple reasons.
Your service would automatically go to the lowest common denominator. And another unique airline culture would be lost. Not everyone may agree, but you have to admit that B6 and VX tried to bring a new paradigm to US air transportation. Just my opinion ....... FNG |
Originally Posted by ibriveadus
(Post 1294912)
You must really be sick.
Perhaps you would like the new medical plan 18,500 Hostess employees received yesterday WOW!!!!! Some guys have an extremely strange thought process. What an extremely weak attempt to rationalize sub-par health plans. YOU are talking to an Airline Pilot. Not a Hostess employee! He is entitled to PEER COMPETITIVE health plans befitting Major Airline Pilots!!!!!!! Maybe Santa could bring you your first book on Labor Economics. JJ |
Originally Posted by flyingpuma1
(Post 1295079)
Welcome to the land of crap insurance, my wife had kidney surgery this year and we've spent at least $8,000 out of pocket, the guy at walmart has better insurance than us now....
Health & Well-Being Benefits
Better? Not really. The same? Well, you might be on to something there.... |
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
(Post 1295186)
Health & Well-Being Benefits
Better? Not really. The same? Well, you might be on to something there.... |
Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
(Post 1295198)
wait until you have to use your health benefits. Hopefully its not a serious condition because you will not be able to afford it on first year pay. Once the blue juice wears off you will be back here singing a different tune.
Nah, we're on the same page. I just deal a little more in facts. Like I said. Wal-Mart employees (at least the full time ones) don't have better health benefits. The sad part is, OUR benefits are on par with that rather than those of a comparable mainline airline. That needs to change. I think part of it stems from the corporate philosophy of we're all crewmembers and everyone is equal. Kinda like the prior philosophy that all customers are equal. They finally changed their tune and offer multiple tiers of value for customers. The same is going to have to happen for the pilots vs other crewmembers. Fact is, a ramper probably IS on par with another ramper at a major. Pilots? Not so much. In order to "attract and retain," that'll have to change. |
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
(Post 1295246)
Nah, we're on the same page. I just deal a little more in facts. Like I said. Wal-Mart employees (at least the full time ones) don't have better health benefits. The sad part is, OUR benefits are on par with that rather than those of a comparable mainline airline. That needs to change.
I think part of it stems from the corporate philosophy of we're all crewmembers and everyone is equal. Kinda like the prior philosophy that all customers are equal. They finally changed their tune and offer multiple tiers of value for customers. The same is going to have to happen for the pilots vs other crewmembers. Fact is, a ramper probably IS on par with another ramper at a major. Pilots? Not so much. In order to "attract and retain," that'll have to change. |
But you're not a comparable mainline carrier. Your a LCC that happens to be operating big aircraft; using a business model that was originally designed to have the company sold off after 10 years. They pay you well because they had no other costs. That will slowly be changing. Get used to it.
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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 1295274)
But you're not a comparable mainline carrier. Your a LCC that happens to be operating big aircraft; using a business model that was originally designed to have the company sold off after 10 years. They pay you well because they had no other costs. That will slowly be changing. Get used to it.
So what is your definition of a LCC? Southwest? Virgin Atlantic? Spirit? If that's the case, how are we flying "big aircraft" in comparison? For that fact, you could pretty much toss Alaska into the bunch. Low Cost Carrier is a very, very poor label for anything in this industry. There's nothing low about the cost, either operating or tickets. In fact, Southwest, the darlings of the supposed LCC scenario, are not even the cheapest when it comes to tickets a lot of the time. With the AirTran merger and headaches going along with that, their operating costs are anything BUT low as well. Spirit? Sure, they're low cost ticket wise, IF you buy it on a fare sale, starve, don't bring any baggage and want to feel like you're freight for the duration of flight.... |
Originally Posted by Kellwolf
(Post 1295291)
So what is your definition of a LCC? Southwest? Virgin Atlantic? Spirit? If that's the case, how are we flying "big aircraft" in comparison? For that fact, you could pretty much toss Alaska into the bunch.
Low Cost Carrier is a very, very poor label for anything in this industry. There's nothing low about the cost, either operating or tickets. In fact, Southwest, the darlings of the supposed LCC scenario, are not even the cheapest when it comes to tickets a lot of the time. With the AirTran merger and headaches going along with that, their operating costs are anything BUT low as well. Spirit? Sure, they're low cost ticket wise, IF you buy it on a fare sale, starve, don't bring any baggage and want to feel like you're freight for the duration of flight.... |
Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
(Post 1295302)
I thought jb was a major when I got hired. In retrospect its little more than a glorified regional with low pay, poor work rules and substandard benefits. They push the culture to make people feel like they are part of something bigger and better, so therefore will work for less. Sorry but the coolness factor loses credibility every time you look at your paycheck and 401k account. You can call it low cost, regional, whatever semantics you wish but its nothing more than what I just said.
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Originally Posted by Climbto450
(Post 1295324)
Well said. I took a huge paycut to come here, my second year pay is still less then 50% of my last job. I am beginning to feel that it may not have been worth it. We need a CBA. The good news is that tons of 2-5 year FOs at JB will be jumping ship as soon as UAL, DAL and (if AA gets a similar contract) AA. Not to mention the furloughed at JB from the above mentioned carriers returning to their mainline employers. Between or growth and attrition there should be plenty of movement for the junior half of half of the seniority list. Without a CBA I am sure we will not be competitive as a destination carrier hence the quality of our new hires will deminish.
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Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
(Post 1295336)
I think you are right, there will be a big exodus once the major and legacy carriers start hiring again. Coming from a military background this place was a bad move when I look back. I should have never believed all the hype I had heard, would have saved a lot of time to just go do something else.
For me, it's all about COMPETITIVE COMPENSATION AND BENEFITS. That is how you measure what kind of Airline you work for. NOT by how "great" they "say" the place is. Money talks, bull$hit walks. JJ |
Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
(Post 1295302)
I thought jb was a major when I got hired. In retrospect its little more than a glorified regional with low pay, poor work rules and substandard benefits. They push the culture to make people feel like they are part of something bigger and better, so therefore will work for less. Sorry but the coolness factor loses credibility every time you look at your paycheck and 401k account. You can call it low cost, regional, whatever semantics you wish but its nothing more than what I just said.
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Originally Posted by ERJ135
(Post 1296553)
What is really sad is JB is a huge step up from regional in terms of pay..
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So when/how is improvements going to be made? If everyone is so fed up with pay/healthcare what's being done? Besides board rants and complaining in cruise during transcon flights is the next drive underway? I'm guessing management is getting plenty of complaints- what are their answers?
My opinion as an outsider- pilot retention is going to be a problem and training costs up significantly once UAL/CAL votes in TA and pulls from the street- this seems imminent. Doesn't it benefit the company to keep mid level/jr FO s in place instead of retraining? But what do I know...... |
Originally Posted by RJer
(Post 1296685)
So when/how is improvements going to be made? If everyone is so fed up with pay/healthcare what's being done? Besides board rants and complaining in cruise during transcon flights is the next drive underway? I'm guessing management is getting plenty of complaints- what are their answers?
My opinion as an outsider- pilot retention is going to be a problem and training costs up significantly once UAL/CAL votes in TA and pulls from the street- this seems imminent. Doesn't it benefit the company to keep mid level/jr FO s in place instead of retraining? But what do I know...... Doesn't matter what any MGMT says. Only their actions count. They do as they see fit. Some Airlines invest in Pilots. Some do not! Career Pilots don't want to hear "talk". They want to see a competitve compensation package. JJ |
So again...what are the pilots doing about it except ranting on the boards since that's all an outsider can see?
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Originally Posted by RJer
(Post 1296774)
So again...what are the pilots doing about it except ranting on the boards since that's all an outsider can see?
Believing every story they are told about how they will enjoy greater job security if they are willing to forego unionization and industry std compensation and benefits. JJ |
Originally Posted by RJer
(Post 1296774)
So again...what are the pilots doing about it except ranting on the boards since that's all an outsider can see?
I hear a lot of people ranting about how jetBlue isn't a destination airline anymore. I'd love to see it become one since I'd prefer this be my last airline. If people just rant, complain and jump ship, it'll never happen. If there's a concentrated effort to try to educate everyone, communicate well (which seems to be the hardest part for a lot of people) and try to make things better, it COULD be a destination carrier. Even if you DO plan on leaving, helping to improve jetBlue before you move on gives you one less potential carrier for your new employer to point to and say "They'll do it for peanuts, why won't you?" |
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Originally Posted by ibriveadus
(Post 1294912)
You must really be sick.
Perhaps you would like the new medical plan 18,500 Hostess employees received yesterday |
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