Jetblue "3A" decision.
 

"The arbitrator in the 3A case issued his decision today, denying the claims from 2009, but determining that the 2007 pay raises triggered Section 3A. While we are disappointed with this decision, we respect the process and recognize the importance of honoring the Pilot Employment Agreements. At this point, JetBlue is evaluating next steps."


Any idea how much this will cost the company and number of pilots affected. Is this a good win for the pilot group and enforcing our PEA?

Rough estimate is 300 million.

It is a good win for the pilot group as it allowed joinder however it took 3 years to prove. Going forward it provides a clear example of how any further litigation would proceed and indicates how management may address any future seniority issues when a merger occurs.
Without turning this into a bashing thread the decision speaks to the arrogance of management. This issue was brought to the attention of every level of management and at each level the pilots were, essentially, laughed out the door.

Interesting...think any upper management job positions will open up because of this?? The BOD must be livid!

Your guess is as good as anyone's. in the end it's not personal just business.

For those of us on the outside looking in, what does the 3A case have to do with and why the arbitration? Thanks.

JetBlue violated section 3A of the PEA. The issue went to arbitration and the ruling was in favor of the pilots. 3A stated if one new pilot was provided a raise all pilots would receive the same percentage. JetBlue gave raises to specific groups only.

Are the affected pilots looking at up to 6-7 years of retro pay?

Yes but only pilots that signed up.

Do you think the company is insured against litigation? Or does that come out of the bank?

Thats forthe CFO to decide however the last 10K indicated they took out a 350 mil line of credit.

I am hearing somewhere around 50 million as a result of only the 2007 claims, it would have been in the neighborhood of 300 million if the 2009 claims where allowed. I wonder if this will have an affect on the compensation review?

The airline and the legal firm have to agree on a forensic accountant to come in and make that determination. There is quite a bit of work to do. It's not just retro pay but also medial leaves, disability payments 401k contributions. Lost I stuff above our pay grades.

divide and conquer.....

I don't believe so, but now I understand why they want to seperate 190 and 320 pilots from the big umbrella of pay raises. I'm hoping everyone sticks together on it, as well as the other issues.

Not exactly. The claim never applied to 190 FO's as the suit was based of their pay. Of roughly 1400 eligible pilots almost 1000 signed on. Those that did not were mostly pro-management types.
As far as sticking together there isn't much 3A pilots can do. The company lost, made it clear to the arbitrator they would not make the remaining pilots whole. This pilot group has been divided long before 3A. I suppose we will all see what the airlines response is in the coming weeks.

Where are you getting this from. Just a few calls ago, Rob said the company had no desire to de-couple the E90-A320 pay.

There is considerable incentive these days to create scary rumors between pilots, I won't believe all the sky is falling crap until I see it in a proposal or it is spoken or written in a public message from the PVC or the company. I have just seen too many things turn out to be BS made up crap.

When members of the PAR/PVC, or whatever acronym it is were in the crewroom last week speaking about company negotiations, pay raises, etc, one of the issues written on a piece of paper and hanging up for everyone to see was pay separation between 190 and 320. Maybe I mis-interpreted but when I asked about it, I was told the company wanted to seperate the two, so that one group could get a pay increase and not the other if need warranted based on the equipment you are flying. Maybe I misunderstood that so if someone has factual info about what that meant then please speak up.

Keep this in mind. JetBlue intends to present some fairly rediculous proposals. The hope is the PVC will later accept something that sounds "reasonable". For this very reason the PVC decided to install the PST. Those pilots go in, present the PVC proposal and then walk out.

Much of what you will here is outlandish and, believe me, the PVC isn't buying it. They are acutely aware of what is and is not industry standard.

What are the odds the 190 and 320 pay separate? That sounds unlikely, but I dont know the culture there- please advise...Are guys gettin tense on the 190 side? Ive talked to a few who say to steer clear of the 190 but not sure what to think. thanx for any info guys.

Ahh, the "ANTI" types. Your conspiracy theories revealed. BlueDriver, Benzobait is a lost cause. He's turned - zombie style. BD I too believe there is no conspiracy, and I too look toward the "truth mills" not rumor for appropriate information.

-Bubs

Typical.

If you signed up for 3A you believed management violated 3A. If you didnt sign 3A you believed management. When you are a little less wet behind the ears come back and post.

We all enjoy how a noob knows everything.

I may be a noob but not a boob.

Actually it was only the 2007 claim which wasn't the almost 1000 pilots it was on the 2009 claim the original claim was around 350 or so. At least that is my understanding of the decision, I might be wrong.

Acronyms
 

As an outsider reading this thread---PEA, got it!
What's PST? PVC? PAR?

Thanks!

Think of it as a multi part student council.

Absent a union we have committees which mimic, on paper, union committees only they have suggestion power with no negotiation ability. Also, the airline is able to appoint 1/3 of each committee except for the PVC which is akin to an MEC.
PST and PAR are acronyms for negotiating committees which report back to management or the airlines management.

A student council whom a few hundred grown men and women seem to believe that they are 100 times better than a CBA. :rolleyes:

Well Bluebelle, the results of a recent survey show the vast majority want a CBA. Some have heartache on ALPA but expect another vote soon.

My student council comment is in regards to the power of the committees, not the tireless effort of the individuals serving.

I think you have your numbers way off.

$30-$50 million would be the answer if they had settled back in 2009 when 3A was first submitted (200-250 pilots). However, with nearly 1000 pilots (2/3rds of them Captains) the number is much much bigger. Even if you apply the smallest possible interpertiation you get closer to $80-100 million in back pay. If you take a more agressive interpretation of 3A you get upwards of $120-180 million. That doesn't even include any potential penalty.

We will see in the next few weeks, but it will be a big number any way you look at it. Plus, Neeleman lost his job for just a $40 million mistake. Barger, RM and Hnat all should lose their jobs on this one as this was INTENTIONAL on thier part.

Just my opinion......

FNG

All of this can be done in just a few weeks if sufficient numbers of people are used to do it. Thus it will cost $$$$$ for JetBlue to do it in a timely fashion. Remember, all of the data is in the JetBlue comptuers. It only takes changing the pay scales and reprocessing the pay.

Yes, JetBlue will delay, delay, delay (JetBlue Standard) and plead that they need time. However, if they just pay the money to hire the necessary people it can be done within weeks for all pilots in 3A.

Just my opinion......

FNG

That would be epic!

After doing more research I agree with you my numbers where way off.

JetBlue's interpretation of back pay is going to be waaaay different then FNG's. According to rumors JB thinks it only owes 2 years of back pay. The arbitrator shall rule and we shall see.

This thing is not going to be settled for years.

It's taken almost 4 years so far but now the arbitrator has ruled. Months maybe, years I don't think. But then again nothing will surprise me from bluejet managment.

Exactly lets see what happens on the 25th before we speculate.

Yeah! Fire Barger! Maybe we can get Tilton or Horton!

According to the Rob, no ones compensation will be changed until 3 A is settled. Better hope that doesn't take years. The Rob seems to think they can still change compensation by the end of the year so he must see a settlement as eminent. This according to his call today.

Missed the call. Anything else interesting? Based on his previous comments that he was going to go after the 3A pilots for legal fees after JetBlue won the arbitration, I'd like to know if he's going to reimburse JetBlue the 4 million he spent trying to keep the pilots from arbitrating.

Lots of good stuff. Try to listen to the podcast, Marooster ain't happy! The PVC is about to get spanked for their transparency. Managment doesn't like it when they can no longer control the message.