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If I were living overseas and saw ABC Regional wanting to hire, but paying the same rates, I don't think I would move overseas for that position....
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452601)
Regionals will shrink dramatically. The new FTDT regs combined with retirements at the majors will cripple them. Not only will they be losing massive efficiencies due to the new FTDT regs, they'll also have a huge lack of qualified applicants.
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Believe it when I see it.
As an industry, airlines will start to kick and scream when FTDT limits start to bite. Politicians will cave by granting an escape clause. Orders for new regional aircraft don't portend any kind of collapse. |
Originally Posted by av8tordude
(Post 1452682)
How I see, If regional airlines want retain their current fleet size, and the majors retain the current route structure, the majors will have to increase their regional partners departure fee. The regional airlines will inevitable have to increase their salaries to attract qualified pilots (whether resident/citizens or foreign nationals), OR...Majors reduce regional flying and obtain bigger aircraft while reducing flight frequencies. |
Originally Posted by av8tordude
(Post 1452682)
Living outside of U.S. made me realized just how much we live in a bubble not realizing what's happening outside...
Due to the signifigance shortfall of new pilot entering the career field, the regionals, NOT the majors, will have a problem with hiring. Does that mean the majors will reduce regional capacity? Maybe, BUT maybe not! Considering the U.S. is not the only country with pilots who may meet the FAA new requirements, other countries have qualified pilots who are also seeking employment globally. Under the H1B visa program, if an U.S. employer is unable to find and hire a professional employee for an unfilled professional position, said company may temporarily hire a foreign national from outside the U.S. under the H1B visa program. I remember when I use to fly for a 135 freight company in early yr 2000, 30% of its pilots were foreign nationals working under the H1B visa program because the company was unable to attract and hire legal resident/citizens to fill pilot positions due to the hiring wave that was occurring at the regional/major airlines. Some scenarios may happen if the regional airlines decides to exploit the H1B visa program. 1. If they are able to find and hire qualified foreign national under the H1B visa program, then regional salaries will remain as they are. Majors retain routes and infrastructure. Everything remains status quo. 2. If regional airlines can not attract foreign national pilots, Regional airlines lose flying and majors lose routes to their competition. So whats the business solution... How I see, If regional airlines want retain their current fleet size, and the majors retain the current route structure, the majors will have to increase their regional partners departure fee. The regional airlines will inevitable have to increase their salaries to attract qualified pilots (whether resident/citizens or foreign nationals), OR...Majors reduce regional flying and obtain bigger aircraft while reducing flight frequencies. Now I know there will be some that will say the regionals will not exploit the H1B program, but it was also be said the majors would take back flying from the regional partners. Currently facts do not support this trend. In fact, its the opposite, Approx 50% of Delta domestic routes are flown by regional airlines compared to 30% in 2005 and United just announced increase regional flying. Something to ponder... |
Originally Posted by av8tordude
(Post 1452682)
Now I know there will be some that will say the regionals will not exploit the H1B program, but it was also be said the majors would take back flying from the regional partners. Currently facts do not support this trend. In fact, its the opposite, Approx 50% of Delta domestic routes are flown by regional airlines compared to 30% in 2005 and United just announced increase regional flying.
Something to ponder... No longer true. And the regional flying for Delta will continue to decrease as the B717s come online, & the 50 sweaters are further reduced. |
Originally Posted by WARich
(Post 1452706)
If I were living overseas and saw ABC Regional wanting to hire, but paying the same rates, I don't think I would move overseas for that position....
Regional salaries are abysmal to U.S. wage standards for professionals, but to other people in less fortunate countries, its a step up in their living and wage standards. Especially if jobs are not plentiful in their country! Plus its a lottery ticket to live in the U.S. I've often wonder why people would want to relocate to the middle east. Yes the money in the middle east is good for professionals, but what about the labor workers making 300-500 USD/mo in conditions that westerners would consider unhealthy work standards. And living conditions definitely is not for the faint of heart either! OSHA would have a field day here! Well...the reason they relocate, it is a step up in their living standards and although 300-500USD is well below poverty standard to us Americans, its actually enough money to pay what little they here and send money back home to their families. Of course they find extra work washing cars, babysitting, private taxi, etc to bring in extra cash. Seems awefully familiar...hmmm (....Mexicans?!?) So you see, its not a far stretch to the imagination that it may come to fruition. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452719)
No longer true. And the regional flying for Delta will continue to decrease as the B717s come online, & the 50 sweaters are further reduced.
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Originally Posted by cardboardbox
(Post 1452717)
So...in other words, Emirates will be staffed with American pilots, and our airlines will be staffed by Chinese pilots?
Secondly, the only pilots leaving the regional airlines are....FO's & junior CA's who are leaving for greener pastures. Majority of the senior regional CA's are financially force to stay because they would be financially ruined if they moved on. |
Originally Posted by av8tordude
(Post 1452727)
50 seat flying is a thing of the far distant past. I'm sure you must be aware of that fact by now with all the CRJ 700/900 & EMB170/175 Delta has flying for them...lol. Yes..Delta has B717, but if DL can't make the profit margin they want with B717 flying certain routes, regional airlines would happily slug it out with each to do the flying. Also, frequency will be limited considering they don't operate their aircraft like SW. An airplane on the ground is airplane that is not makin money.
I'm not sure why you think SW operates the B717 any different then Delta will. I jump seated on a AirTran B717 just a few months ago, & it wasn't a quick turn at all. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452731)
The B717 will have a lower CASM then any 76 seater. For the rock bottom price that the B717s were acquired for it'll be difficult to not make $$$ with them. Delta is still making money with the DC9-50. It has less seats then the B717 & is much less fuel efficient.
I'm not sure why you think SW operates the B717 any different then Delta will. I jump seated on a AirTran B717 just a few months ago, & it wasn't a quick turn at all. Also, an argument can be made in regards the ONE flight you took, but I don't think it adds an relevance to the OP's original question. In trying to stick to the original question, my posts were meant to offer an outside view of the U.S. airline industry as I see it living as an expat. |
Originally Posted by av8tordude
(Post 1452749)
The few B717 that DL will be acquiring is not enough to put a dent to reduce regional airline flying. Also, I could be wrong, but DL will be leasing the B717. Its easy to make a boat load of money when you don't have to make lease payments.
Also, an argument can be made in regards the ONE flight you took, but I don't think it adds an relevance to the OP's original question. In trying to stick to the original question, my posts were meant to offer an outside view of the U.S. airline industry as I see it living as an expat. Also, SWA is essentially paying DL to take the B717 off their hands. They were acquired for substantially less then the cost of a new CRJ900/EMB175. They'll be paid for in a short seven years. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452731)
The B717 will have a lower CASM then any 76 seater. For the rock bottom price that the B717s were acquired for it'll be difficult to not make $$$ with them. Delta is still making money with the DC9-50. It has less seats then the B717 & is much less fuel efficient.
I'm not sure why you think SW operates the B717 any different then Delta will. I jump seated on a AirTran B717 just a few months ago, & it wasn't a quick turn at all. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452731)
The B717 will have a lower CASM then any 76 seater. For the rock bottom price that the B717s were acquired for it'll be difficult to not make $$$ with them. Delta is still making money with the DC9-50. It has less seats then the B717 & is much less fuel efficient.
I'm not sure why you think SW operates the B717 any different then Delta will. I jump seated on a AirTran B717 just a few months ago, & it wasn't a quick turn at all. |
Originally Posted by av8tordude
(Post 1452749)
The few B717 that DL will be acquiring is not enough to put a dent to reduce regional airline flying. Also, I could be wrong, but DL will be leasing the B717. Its easy to make a boat load of money when you don't have to make lease payments.
Also, an argument can be made in regards the ONE flight you took, but I don't think it adds an relevance to the OP's original question. In trying to stick to the original question, my posts were meant to offer an outside view of the U.S. airline industry as I see it living as an expat. |
Question for the smart responsible people:
If one can't get a job stateside to pay the bills because the only options are $22 an hour with the regionals, or one could go overseas and make a responsible income why would someone hate you for wanting to be responsible and support your family??????????????????????? This whole discussion about expats flying is flat out irritating.......How can you hate someone for wanting to be responsible and not live on unemployment? Seriously????? Maybe those that have issues with this should look in the mirror.......and I'll go a step further, I guess this is where we're going, to an industry of leaches that live off the government until that perfect job comes along rather than taking what we can get overseas.........this whole discussion makes me sick as an American.........normal, old school, American's do what they can to support their family through hard work....so here's a toast to those that decide to go overseas for a flying job because nothing is available stateside rather than living off the government.......I guess it's the generation that is arriving....the takers.......give me a fricken break....... |
Originally Posted by Geardownflaps30
(Post 1452783)
You do realize that Delta is configuring the B717's with 12 LESS seats than the DC-9's?!
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1452789)
The -50 has 12 more seats than the 717 will have.
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...................
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
(Post 1452798)
NWA -40s had 110 seats, -30s had 100.
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Originally Posted by WARich
(Post 1452792)
Question for the smart responsible people:
If one can't get a job stateside to pay the bills because the only options are $22 an hour with the regionals, or one could go overseas and make a responsible income why would someone hate you for wanting to be responsible and support your family??????????????????????? This whole discussion about expats flying is flat out irritating.......How can you hate someone for wanting to be responsible and not live on unemployment? Seriously????? Maybe those that have issues with this should look in the mirror.......and I'll go a step further, I guess this is where we're going, to an industry of leaches that live off the government until that perfect job comes along rather than taking what we can get overseas.........this whole discussion makes me sick as an American.........normal, old school, American's do what they can to support their family through hard work....so here's a toast to those that decide to go overseas for a flying job because nothing is available stateside rather than living off the government.......I guess it's the generation that is arriving....the takers.......give me a fricken break....... |
Add Content
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Originally Posted by flybywire44
(Post 1452837)
Add Content
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452800)
Ugh. I loathed the -40 because they put those stinking -15s derated to -11s. I think that was the config. Man those things were pigs.
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Originally Posted by WARich
(Post 1448877)
This might be a loaded question and provide many opportunities for the conversation to get hijacked, but where does everyone see the industry in 1, 5, 10, 20 years? This includes what happens with the majors, regionals, pay, QOL, hiring, everything.......ok....have at it....:D
The trend now is a once celebrated career becoming nothing more but brother can you spare a job. This industry resembles nothing like the 70's or 80's. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1452731)
The B717 will have a lower CASM then any 76 seater. For the rock bottom price that the B717s were acquired for it'll be difficult to not make $$$ with them. Delta is still making money with the DC9-50. It has less seats then the B717 & is much less fuel efficient.
I'm not sure why you think SW operates the B717 any different then Delta will. I jump seated on a AirTran B717 just a few months ago, & it wasn't a quick turn at all. Segment cost is probably the most important factor...which is why a 767 doesn't fly between Msp and Cid. |
Legacy airlines form all countries are going to see a decline in international flying. You can’t compete with the Middle Eastern carriers. Gas in Saudi Arabia is 45 cents a gallon, jet fuel is about the same. They pay the pilots pretty good but everybody else is paid crap. The rampers are a from Pakistan or Bangladesh and get 500 dollars a month at best. Cabin crew get 1500 a month at best. No pensions, no Unions, the list goes on and on. There is no way to compete with these carriers and make money.
As soon as the Middle East airlines start to code share with JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin (Australia), Ryan Air (Europe), etc. these LCC’s will supply plenty of passengers for the international flying. LCC’s doing domestic, Middle East Airlines doing long haul. Going to be interesting times ahead. |
Originally Posted by stratofactor
(Post 1454703)
Legacy airlines form all countries are going to see a decline in international flying. You can’t compete with the Middle Eastern carriers. Gas in Saudi Arabia is 45 cents a gallon, jet fuel is about the same.
They pay the pilots pretty good but everybody else is paid crap. The rampers are a from Pakistan or Bangladesh and get 500 dollars a month at best. Cabin crew get 1500 a month at best. No pensions, no Unions, the list goes on and on. There is no way to compete with these carriers and make money. As for the pay, US carriers are far more competitive due to low pilot costs. We can compete transatlantic to Europe and all and maybe South America... but the onboard amenities and customer service need to vastly improve. As soon as the Middle East airlines start to code share with JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin (Australia), Ryan Air (Europe), etc. these LCC’s will supply plenty of passengers for the international flying. LCC’s doing domestic, Middle East Airlines doing long haul. Going to be interesting times ahead. |
[QUOTE=RJSAviator76;1455966]Gas may be, but Jet-A definitely isn't.... I actually paid less in LSGG than OERK if you can believe that.
Flying a contract for Saudi Arabian Airlines right now, Jet A-1 in OEJN is 25 cents a gallon and in OEMA it's 50 cents a gallon. We tanker fuel whenever we can. Home team airline must get it cheaper.:eek: |
Does anyone think domestic carriers service/aircraft seating will ever compete with some of the nice international carriers?
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