Vets In Blue
11-26-2013, 08:47 AM
#51
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
[QUOTE=pilotpayne;1528128]
Thanks for educating me on the seat reduction, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I like jb, love jumpseating on them, I think the pilots are great, and I hope they get the great pay rates and benefits they deserve. My point of my post was to help an AF retiree understand that their perspective is a little naive, to no fault of their own. A LtCol who's been sitting behind a desk for almost 10 years craves the idea of flying a plane, and with a $3500 a month pension check plus full medical rolling in, it's easy to do it for substandard pay. again, it's just perspective here.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
Originally Posted by aewanabe
Hmm, I've read most of Ghillis' posts and he seems to be supportive of all pilots in general, not bashing us in the least.
And unfortunately you're dead wrong about the seats. We pulled them out of the 320s in 2006-2007 as a way to cut our overall ASM growth while taking delivery of a massive order book. The secondary benefits were to reduce fuel consumption and tech-stops on westbound transcons, and the ability to remove the 4th FA. We didn't start monetizing the Even More product until April 2008.
To djepage and others, thanks for your service! JetBlue is not a slave-ship, but is far from what it should be. To offer some perspective, my wife and I are both JB pilots; she is former KC-10, my background is entirely civilian. Neither of us are yes votes for the money; we are yes votes because of multiple broken promises and a general lack of integrity from leadership over the years. We view a CBA as a necessary evil, basically career insurance. So if you join us, welcome aboard, and please keep your eyes and ears open
And unfortunately you didn't read my post.
I said he does not seem to like jetBlues MODEL.
He has always been respectful about the pilots.
Also I said getting rid of the fa helped save money as well as adding more leg room which LED you can go read it LED to even more leg room (product)
My point was he was dead wrong about our cleaning policy and the company getting rid of the fa because the company knew we would take up the slack.
And unfortunately you're dead wrong about the seats. We pulled them out of the 320s in 2006-2007 as a way to cut our overall ASM growth while taking delivery of a massive order book. The secondary benefits were to reduce fuel consumption and tech-stops on westbound transcons, and the ability to remove the 4th FA. We didn't start monetizing the Even More product until April 2008.
To djepage and others, thanks for your service! JetBlue is not a slave-ship, but is far from what it should be. To offer some perspective, my wife and I are both JB pilots; she is former KC-10, my background is entirely civilian. Neither of us are yes votes for the money; we are yes votes because of multiple broken promises and a general lack of integrity from leadership over the years. We view a CBA as a necessary evil, basically career insurance. So if you join us, welcome aboard, and please keep your eyes and ears open
And unfortunately you didn't read my post.
I said he does not seem to like jetBlues MODEL.
He has always been respectful about the pilots.
Also I said getting rid of the fa helped save money as well as adding more leg room which LED you can go read it LED to even more leg room (product)
My point was he was dead wrong about our cleaning policy and the company getting rid of the fa because the company knew we would take up the slack.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
11-26-2013, 08:54 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
[QUOTE=ghilis101;1528403]
Thanks for educating me on the seat reduction, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I like jb, love jumpseating on them, I think the pilots are great, and I hope they get the great pay rates and benefits they deserve. My point of my post was to help an AF retiree understand that their perspective is a little naive, to no fault of their own. A LtCol who's been sitting behind a desk for almost 10 years craves the idea of flying a plane, and with a $3500 a month pension check plus full medical rolling in, it's easy to do it for substandard pay. again, it's just perspective here.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
Also I want to apologize that I may have come off a little harsh with you.
There is just a lot of information on here that is sometimes not true about jetBlue.
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Thanks for educating me on the seat reduction, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I like jb, love jumpseating on them, I think the pilots are great, and I hope they get the great pay rates and benefits they deserve. My point of my post was to help an AF retiree understand that their perspective is a little naive, to no fault of their own. A LtCol who's been sitting behind a desk for almost 10 years craves the idea of flying a plane, and with a $3500 a month pension check plus full medical rolling in, it's easy to do it for substandard pay. again, it's just perspective here.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
Also I want to apologize that I may have come off a little harsh with you.
There is just a lot of information on here that is sometimes not true about jetBlue.
11-26-2013, 08:58 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by aewanabe
We get that you hate ALPA. Comparing our situation to Endeavour Air is disingenuous at best.
Hyperboy is the other half of the equation at B6. If you go back and read what I said about JBLU liking guys straight out of the military...the part I did not include was how JetBlue loved to hire guys from Mesa.
Some people that worked at Mesa were so fed up with the shenaningans that happened there, that JBLU seemed like a pilot utopia when they got there. It was a huge improvement in work conditions and pay in relative terms. The Mesa guys were used to working hard and it was their wet dream to be able to fly for over 100 hours credit in an Airbus. There are guys who routinely sell their vacation back to make those few extra bucks and anxiously await a FLICA alert.
B6 needs a union...you are leaving money on the table if you don't get a negotiating agent with more horsepower that your company appointed pilot reps.
11-26-2013, 09:08 AM
#55
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
[QUOTE=pilotpayne;1528409]
Also I want to apologize that I may have come off a little harsh with you.
There is just a lot of information on here that is sometimes not true about jetBlue.
No prob, I appreciate that you're out there educating fellow pilots on the facts, and helping your guys realize how much they're worth.
As for guys who come to jb and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, well that indicates a pretty good corporate culture, something to be proud of. Your pay should be commensurate with your skill and service you provide, and I think you can get it. Spirit did it, so can you.
Originally Posted by ghilis101
Also I want to apologize that I may have come off a little harsh with you.
There is just a lot of information on here that is sometimes not true about jetBlue.
As for guys who come to jb and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, well that indicates a pretty good corporate culture, something to be proud of. Your pay should be commensurate with your skill and service you provide, and I think you can get it. Spirit did it, so can you.
11-26-2013, 09:38 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: A320 Right Seat
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by ghilis101
Thanks for educating me on the seat reduction, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I like jb, love jumpseating on them, I think the pilots are great, and I hope they get the great pay rates and benefits they deserve. My point of my post was to help an AF retiree understand that their perspective is a little naive, to no fault of their own. A LtCol who's been sitting behind a desk for almost 10 years craves the idea of flying a plane, and with a $3500 a month pension check plus full medical rolling in, it's easy to do it for substandard pay. again, it's just perspective here.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Also I want to apologize that I may have come off a little harsh with you.
There is just a lot of information on here that is sometimes not true about jetBlue.
Originally Posted by ghilis101
No prob, I appreciate that you're out there educating fellow pilots on the facts, and helping your guys realize how much they're worth.
As for guys who come to jb and think it's the best thing since sliced bread, well that indicates a pretty good corporate culture, something to be proud of. Your pay should be commensurate with your skill and service you provide, and I think you can get it. Spirit did it, so can you.
Why can't we see more of this on here?
11-26-2013, 02:14 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: Between Gigs
Posts: 142
[QUOTE=ghilis101;1528403]
Thanks for educating me on the seat reduction, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I like jb, love jumpseating on them, I think the pilots are great, and I hope they get the great pay rates and benefits they deserve. My point of my post was to help an AF retiree understand that their perspective is a little naive, to no fault of their own. A LtCol who's been sitting behind a desk for almost 10 years craves the idea of flying a plane, and with a $3500 a month pension check plus full medical rolling in, it's easy to do it for substandard pay. again, it's just perspective here.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
Not naive, just have different goals at this point of my life and it's not my responsibilty to strike, vote no, or fight the man...just like you, I'm looking out for me. 27 years ago when I entered the Academy, I had different goals than I do now. And for the record, the desk only slowed me down the last three after I broke my leg and chose not to screw the dudes spending months on the desert by stealing their training sorties
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Thanks for educating me on the seat reduction, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I like jb, love jumpseating on them, I think the pilots are great, and I hope they get the great pay rates and benefits they deserve. My point of my post was to help an AF retiree understand that their perspective is a little naive, to no fault of their own. A LtCol who's been sitting behind a desk for almost 10 years craves the idea of flying a plane, and with a $3500 a month pension check plus full medical rolling in, it's easy to do it for substandard pay. again, it's just perspective here.
I thank dje for his military service, and I thank everyone who's served, even if it's just for one day. I've got nearly 12 years in, 16 if you count my 4 years of torture at the Air Force Academy
11-26-2013, 06:44 PM
#59
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
[QUOTE=djepage;1528594]
Not naive, just have different goals at this point of my life and it's not my responsibilty to strike, vote no, or fight the man...just like you, I'm looking out for me. 27 years ago when I entered the Academy, I had different goals than I do now. And for the record, the desk only slowed me down the last three after I broke my leg and chose not to screw the dudes spending months on the desert by stealing their training sorties
Good point, the goals we set in life are our independent of anyone else's and can change at any point. I think the attitudes of negativity you may have experienced from pro union guys has come off a little militant due to various reasons, such as frustration with the status quo. Yes every once in a while people can let their emotions out and want to "burn this f-ing place down." But once the they let off some steam, at the end of the day, they do care about their jobs and their company, and just want the work rules and pay they deserve. Unions have generally been voted in in times of turmoil with management, but there's a few shining examples out there of unions who get along better than most with mgt (southwest, and recently delta, although nwa guys still may have their reasons to be upset).
I work at a small cargo airline that was non-union for several years. Work conditions and intimidation got so bad, that voting in a union was the only thing they could do here to save themselves from the pain. I'm active as an officer in my union because I care about the pilot group and I'm heavily invested in this profession for probably 30 more years. Getting a union, however, is not the answer so much as being an advocate for your profession. Often times you'll hear, "are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?" This is probably somewhat subjective, but pilots can keep that in the back of their minds to help improve their working conditions.
Originally Posted by ghilis101
Not naive, just have different goals at this point of my life and it's not my responsibilty to strike, vote no, or fight the man...just like you, I'm looking out for me. 27 years ago when I entered the Academy, I had different goals than I do now. And for the record, the desk only slowed me down the last three after I broke my leg and chose not to screw the dudes spending months on the desert by stealing their training sorties
Good point, the goals we set in life are our independent of anyone else's and can change at any point. I think the attitudes of negativity you may have experienced from pro union guys has come off a little militant due to various reasons, such as frustration with the status quo. Yes every once in a while people can let their emotions out and want to "burn this f-ing place down." But once the they let off some steam, at the end of the day, they do care about their jobs and their company, and just want the work rules and pay they deserve. Unions have generally been voted in in times of turmoil with management, but there's a few shining examples out there of unions who get along better than most with mgt (southwest, and recently delta, although nwa guys still may have their reasons to be upset).
I work at a small cargo airline that was non-union for several years. Work conditions and intimidation got so bad, that voting in a union was the only thing they could do here to save themselves from the pain. I'm active as an officer in my union because I care about the pilot group and I'm heavily invested in this profession for probably 30 more years. Getting a union, however, is not the answer so much as being an advocate for your profession. Often times you'll hear, "are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?" This is probably somewhat subjective, but pilots can keep that in the back of their minds to help improve their working conditions.
11-27-2013, 05:24 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: Between Gigs
Posts: 142
[QUOTE=ghilis101;1528806]
Good point, the goals we set in life are our independent of anyone else's and can change at any point. I think the attitudes of negativity you may have experienced from pro union guys has come off a little militant due to various reasons, such as frustration with the status quo. Yes every once in a while people can let their emotions out and want to "burn this f-ing place down." But once the they let off some steam, at the end of the day, they do care about their jobs and their company, and just want the work rules and pay they deserve. Unions have generally been voted in in times of turmoil with management, but there's a few shining examples out there of unions who get along better than most with mgt (southwest, and recently delta, although nwa guys still may have their reasons to be upset).
I work at a small cargo airline that was non-union for several years. Work conditions and intimidation got so bad, that voting in a union was the only thing they could do here to save themselves from the pain. I'm active as an officer in my union because I care about the pilot group and I'm heavily invested in this profession for probably 30 more years. Getting a union, however, is not the answer so much as being an advocate for your profession. Often times you'll hear, "are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?" This is probably somewhat subjective, but pilots can keep that in the back of their minds to help improve their working conditions.
So you are not interested in jB, then why surf the message board and lobby for union members? Sounds like it worked well at your carrier, and I expect ALPA to start at jB soon and I will be a member, but I believe that unions ultimately get in bed with management and ultimately serve them$elve$ rather than their constituents and therefore, I would rather just go to work, do my job and when necessary I'll squawk IDENT...if however it's illegal(FAR/OM), immoral (my definition) or unsafe (again my definition) I will then squawk 7700. I guess by the veteran 121 guys, that is naive, but I only know one way to execute the passion of my mistress(flying) and that's how I've done it for 20 years through good bosses and crappy bosses and even bosses that weren't aviators telling me how to do my job.
Originally Posted by djepage
Good point, the goals we set in life are our independent of anyone else's and can change at any point. I think the attitudes of negativity you may have experienced from pro union guys has come off a little militant due to various reasons, such as frustration with the status quo. Yes every once in a while people can let their emotions out and want to "burn this f-ing place down." But once the they let off some steam, at the end of the day, they do care about their jobs and their company, and just want the work rules and pay they deserve. Unions have generally been voted in in times of turmoil with management, but there's a few shining examples out there of unions who get along better than most with mgt (southwest, and recently delta, although nwa guys still may have their reasons to be upset).
I work at a small cargo airline that was non-union for several years. Work conditions and intimidation got so bad, that voting in a union was the only thing they could do here to save themselves from the pain. I'm active as an officer in my union because I care about the pilot group and I'm heavily invested in this profession for probably 30 more years. Getting a union, however, is not the answer so much as being an advocate for your profession. Often times you'll hear, "are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?" This is probably somewhat subjective, but pilots can keep that in the back of their minds to help improve their working conditions.
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