Hmmmmmm don't you work for Airways?
I wouldn't pick up that stone so fast.


There is truth to the fact that lcc's can depress wages but you also have to look at your own legacy management. Most have turned the ship around but that came with BK, mergers, pay cuts and furloughs.
Gloopy seemed to say only legacys should exist and that is a TOTALY arrogant statement.

No I work for American airlines.

Don't you FLY for US Airways, a subsidiary of the AAL group?

I was responding to his comment that us is basically low end, we're making exactly the same as aa and we are basically aa.

But back to the matter at hand, everytime JetBlue or spirit or whichever lcc adds an airplane it adds more cheap seats to the industry. It lowers the profits of the legacies and in the ends hurts their ability to be able to pay more. It's basic supply and demand. Get mad all you want but those are the facts.

We'll that says it all.
You should change your profile still say airways.

I was not blaming airways, I was just pointing out that until recently you were the low end of the "majors" so I am not sure where the attitude came from.

On the contrary, I'd say the LCCs are probably responsible for forcing the legacys to get their houses in order. The learned about fees and the fact that if they cut each others throats, a new LCC would step in and fill the vacuum.

Canoe has some interesting posts. He took a job at the lowest paying airline in the country and was about to crap his pants when the DOJ filed to stop the merger.

No pilot should look down upon another.

l:Your "facts" have been weak at best.

I've around this business most of my life and seen it go through many changes. My Dad started with one of the original local service carriers that grew into the major I went to work for. Used to have PA amd TW guys on the Jumpseat making snide comments about our 737s while the captain was making more than their 74 captains. This business is ever changing and those that don't keep up die. The company you took a job with came close. Every legacy filed for Chp11(depending on the definition of legacy used).

Best to save your stones for squirrels. West ones. :-)

So what is the point of your "factual"" statement? I think the addition of cheap seats is as much a bait and switch maneuver as anything. How many $29 fares do you really think any of them have? I'd be willing to bet that as soon as you see an advert for one, that unless you are on the computer with their website up when the ad is first run, you ain't getting any of that... but I am sure the thinking goes that John Q will say... "well... since I'm here.. and they are THE low fare airline" :rolleyes: might as well buy a ticket.... It's a total ruse.. and masterfully done too I might add. But back to YOUR point... Some of the true low fare airlines aren't going to be in business long if they sell a product for less than it costs to produce it. Econ 101. I don't think JBlue selling a few cheap seats is gonna hurt DAL much in the big scheme of things. We have a lot of other areas from which we can make up the margin. They, on the other hand do not. Ultimately, all they are doing is hurting their own earnings. By NOT giving away the product, which is what the industry seems to have finally gotten thru their thick heads, we all make money. Ultimately, no matter how you slice it, none of it is a pilot's fault.

Sorry for the ramble....

You didn't seem to mind when legacy airlines were gasping for air and the LCC's were taking deliveries as fast as the factory could pump them out while gutting the markets with 25 dollar intro fares and taking almost any route they wanted with a hyper low CASM no one could come close to matching. While legacies furloughed by the thousands LCC's had lightning fast upgrades (ironically to about industry standard FO pay in the first place, with lower benefits and work rules…"PFU" pay for upgrade).

And now that the industry is finally seeing some limited measure of stability and prosperity, due mostly to legacy consolidation and "capacity dicipline" you are giddy to grow into that contraction as if it were some permanent paradigm to transfer domestic flying to you so you can code share with the flag of convienience "open skies" poachers.

FWIW, I hope the LCC's fall hard and face contraction and some of them go away, directly or via consolidation. As if you would have shed a tear if a legacy or two liquidated and your start up placed a big widebody order, etc. I agree though, its not the pilot's fault. I just hope we are in a period of legacy prosperity and can not just fend off the growth of, but reclaim significant marketshare that the LCC's grew into the last 14 years in a blatant attempt to put down a legacy or two and take that flying. It wasn't personal back then, it was just business. As it is now.