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#denyNAI | Tell Obama to deny Norwegian Air Shuttle's application to fly into the US

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/me...nai-scheme.jpg

ALPA to U.S. Government: Reject Norwegian Air’s Evasive Scheme
Foreign Company Seeks to Exploit Legal and Regulatory Loopholes to Evade its National Laws and Gain Economic Advantage over U.S. Airlines
WASHINGTON–The Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) today called for the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) to immediately reject Norwegian Air International’s (NAI) foreign air carrier permit application because the company appears to be attempting to evade its national laws and regulations to compete unfairly against U.S. airlines and their employees. The call came in an answer that ALPA filed in response to NAI’s application.
“Norwegian Air International was clearly designed to attempt to dodge laws and regulations, starting a race to the bottom on labor and working conditions,” said Capt. Lee Moak, ALPA’s president. “If successful, the company would gain a serious and unfair economic advantage over U.S. airlines in the competition for the business of international passengers flying to and from the United States. This exploitation of the laws intended to prevent labor law shopping cannot be allowed to stand.”
While Norwegian citizens control NAI, which is a subsidiary of Norwegian Air Shuttle (NAS), the company uses aircraft registered in Ireland and has applied for an air operator certificate from that country. It appears that its flight crews will work under individual employment contracts that are governed by Singapore law and that have wages and working conditions substantially inferior to those of NAS’s Norway-based pilots.
“If NAS is permitted to pick and choose the countries in which it establishes its subsidiaries and employs its flight crews, U.S. carriers will be put at a severe competitive disadvantage because the United States has one set of laws and regulations for all of its airlines,” said Capt. Moak. “The U.S.-EU air services agreement was never intended to allow this type of scheme, which games the system for competitive economic advantages.”
ALPA maintains that the NAI scheme raises the specter of the “flag of convenience” business practice that undermined the U.S. maritime industry by allowing a vessel to be registered in a country different from its ownership and apply the country of registry’s laws to its operations. The practice precipitated the decline of the industry and the loss of tens of thousands of U.S. maritime jobs as companies flew the flag of countries with the weakest labor and tax laws and regulations.
Moak noted a quote by the AFL-CIO’s Transportation Trades Department in an opinion piece published today by Aviation Daily: “We must reject business models premised on scouring the globe for cheap labor no matter the consequences, and not pretend this is somehow acceptable competitive behavior.”
“The NAI scheme must be immediately and unequivocally rejected,” said Moak. “The DOT must not permit U.S. airlines and their employees to face an unfair competitive disadvantage from this runaway shop and swiftly dismiss NAI’s air carrier permit application.”
Moak also called on the Irish government to reject NAI’s attempt to register the aircraft in Ireland. “Ireland should not allow itself to be complicit in NAI’s avoidance scheme,” he concluded.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot union, representing nearly 50,000 pilots at 32 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org.

#denyNAI | Tell Obama to deny Norwegian Air Shuttle's application to fly into the US

(APA and SWAPA are also in support of this effort, but I was unable to link their press releases here)

Pretty sure this administration doesn't care. I will betcha that Marco Rubio doesn't.

I signed it btw... painless.

I hope you are wrong, T (as usual?). Signed, because that's all I can do.

abu dhabi ring any bells?

Mailed my congressman. He thinks it makes the US safer and therefore supports it. Sad.

I signed. I'm not sure that it will do any good but at least my feelings are known. SWAPA said much the same thing. Here's the SWAPA link you couldn't find.
http://www.airlineinfo.com/ostpdf89/374.pdf

Yeah, so did Rubio. It will be interesting when the first security breach is traced back to there. I am sure they will fall all over themselves wondering what happened. Not to mention the colossal waste of taxpayer money.....

I signed. I don't think it's going to anything. This so called president has so many things going wrong. I really don't think he cares about this. Unless this will harm the majority of people that voted for him he will turn his back and then deny any responsibility if it hurts us or makes us less safe.

Well, he can't get re-elected, so if it doesn't reduce foodstamps, he might go along.

Abu Dhabi is a separate but equally important issue.

HR 3488 has 144 co-sponsors already 70+ D's and 60+ R's (since the spending bill passed, that's a lot of names fast in Congressional world).

Expect Senate companion bill soon and a Call to Action accompanying it.

Somewhat seperate. Both are unfair to US Airlines and labor. On that note, I wonder if A4A would join us, seeing how both are being hurt by this.

Yes. A4A is in support of both issues.

In fact, the "joint filing" by AMR, UAL, LCC, and DAL make reference to specific arguments made in the ALPA filing on NAI.

I remember about 8 years ago, Aer Lingus and United entered into a similar arrangement. At the end of the day... what happened? It wasn't the protests that shot the arrangement down... pure economics.

I wonder what kind of pilot will apply for this job?

1) A desperate one, one that is stuck at a low paying regional?

2) One with lots of skeletons in the closet?

3) One that really wants to fly a 787?

Truly amazing how our industry is slowly but surely going the way of the cruising world. I hope all of these petitions and calls to actions will be heard.

TEN

What is the pay? Reading through the contract it provides a better QOL than about 90% of US regional jobs. The majority of regional pilots are currently desperate AND stuck at a low paying job (which regional isn't low paying?). If ALPA and US Airline management thought this was a a real threat and wanted to keep US experienced pilots from joining the ranks of places like this they would work to provide livable wages for skilled US pilots and paths to a true career job. As it stands now why would a regional pilot not go work for an airline that is going to pay them a more reasonable salary and provide for a better QOL? And how is this any different, in theory, from all the outsourcing currently going on domestically in the US. You can't have it both ways, be for outsourcing domestically when it benefits you (provides your company with huge profits and bonus checks) but then against it internationally when it could potentially threaten your career.

In order to work for this company, a pilot has to have an EASA certificate. Not too many US regional pilots possess, or are in a position to acquire one.

A bill was brought forward to prevent future schemes like the Aer Lingus-United set up, and the United/Continental pilots inserted language into their merged contract that prohibited the one that had been in place.

Heard from a friend of mine at SAS that a NAS (the Norwegian parent company of NAI) 787 landed in Oslo and the guy on the radio had a fat old Texas growl. Probably someone who took an early out (with pension) whose wife didn't want him home anymore and he went back to work. Sad. We, as pilots, are our own worst enemy at times. Yes, letters sent to all my representatives.

ALPA, does not cut the pay checks.

The company writes the check, ALPA fills out the amount.

The snowball will catch us all
 

I wager it will attract stuck up Embaer-Riddle grads with gel hair and and ego wanting to brag about how they fly a, "Big jet across the water," Their ego and the "promise" of higher paying work at a US major when they get the hours will be the bait. The truth is they will learn too late that they shot themselves and pretty much every US major employee in the foot. By the time they get those hours the high paying jobs they were, "promised," will have evaporated. Sadly too will be the pay and benefits that come with a major airline job.

Also note I'm not a airline pilot, but dispatcher. Like pilots I've worked to get were I am and what I make and still have a good future ahead, but letting stuff such as this Norwegian scam happen will affect me too, thus why I gladly signed the petition. Remember, the snowball stands to catch all of us if allowed to roll.

signed.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. :rolleyes:

Signed! Signed!Signed!Signed!Signed!Signed!Signed!Signed!S igned!Signed!Signed!

We need to make sure no one who works there is ever hired at a US carrier. Ever.

^^^^^^^^^^^ Signed^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Rah Rah Rah... you tell them Drank! You go right on the defensive and threaten your carrier with resignation if they consider hiring anyone... anyone, even if they are a personal friend of yours:eek: coming from a M/E carrier... wait, let's not be bigoted here... even if they've flown with any carrier not based in the US:confused:.


Oh brother, I've heard this song many times.

That's not what he's saying. While the Gulf carriers are a major threat to our livelihoods, the NAI scumbags are flat out flag of convienience poachers barely, and I mean barely, only a couple atomic layers above the S word. At least they have the courtessy to wait for a strike, which is extremely rare and arguably never going to happen again with a large airline. But dirt bags like NAI are coming for your career, now, with the exact same self serving ferocity and lame justifications that anyone ever did at EAL, CAL or anywhere else. They must be stopped.

I hate to say it but isn't this what capitalism is all about?

"Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry and the means of production are controlled by private owners with the goal of making profits in a market economy."

Notice it says nothing about playing fair or level field. The owners of Norwegian are out to make a profit and seem to have a scheme going forward.

So you're hoping for a growth inducing VX/NAI code share?

This isn't any more "capitalistic" than the corportist Bank of Boeing foreign airline subsidy. They are circumventing the entire process with their flag of convienience attempt. If you think that is "capitalism" or "freedom" you should be OK with nuking all labor laws and regulations and let any company do anything with no limits. Capitalism is certainlly profit oriented, but its not anarchy. Giving a foreign entity drastic advantages over your own in like industries to funnel profits to a preferred class of investors is far more fascist than it is capitalist.

Of course I'm not hoping for that kind of growth. But by definition I do not see anything about a level playing field or being fair in what capitalism is. It is a cutthroat business in which another will try and do the same as you do but for less overall costs. Their hope will be to profit and over time push you out of business. Anyway, do we really have a right to tell foreigners how they should or shouldn't run their business asides from the obvious FAA safety aspect? If their airline is approved by the FAA for flights into the US, then what legal grounds do we have to stop them? If they are US owned in some way then that changes some things, but if it is 100% foreign, who are we to say what they can charge for tickets or what they pay their crews? The last point you bring up is giving a foreign company advantages? What do you mean by giving them an advantage? If by advantage we are simply allowing to fly to the US, then that really isn't an advantage. An advantage would be giving them free slots at airports or discounts in landing fees, etc.

If they aren't approved, then they aren't approved.


Also, while they play the unrestricted may the best company win capitalist card, they should have no problem with us putting a 777 on every flight they do full of dollar fares and free cargo, right? We could easilly afford to eat the losses and still be profitable well into the billions. Yet I'm betting they would squeal "predatory pricing" to their little world courts, seeking government protection in the name of "level playing fields" while Boeing lobbys DC to make us stop to protect their end of the so called capitalist market.

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/...inful__oPt.jpg

Sure. How you gonna do that? Will you then include M R Rats/Jihadi and all the Asian airline contract jobs too?

Signed. Lots of threats to the profession right now & on the low-end side ALPA has a lot of culpability (9E/PSA/XJT/EGL concessionary tsunami).... but they're 100% correct on this one.

You have a good point and I agree with you. They definitely would scream bloody murder they other way around. I do want our US jobs protected, but IMO the current administration (or even future ones with current candidates) aren't going to do anything to protect us. In the end money talks and those foreign companies have lots that they can spend to lobby and buy our politicians.

It's like that scene from 'Eraser' when Arnold is explaining to an Italian boss "There's a major arms deal going down. A U.S. contractor's selling out to international terrorists." Response by the other guy, "Mr. 60 Minutes. Tell me something I don't know."

:D

Look Below

I was wondering when you would chime in:)

TEN

No, I agree with this thread and signed my name to the petition.

So I guess we could say that Lorenzo is just a capitalist!

We are over 5100 signatures in less than a week. Keep putting the word out to your friends and family. This isn't a pilot only thing, anyone can sign the petition.

Signed it.

Put down 2 more signatures.