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Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
(Post 1615819)
Yup, sounds exactly like my experience at AirTran right up until we "won the LUV lottery". I just jumpseated on you guys. Great experience. I agree with the observation that you guys have some great potential and hope that WHEN someone buys you you'll fair better than we did. Enjoy the family atmosphere, new equipment, and Latin America/Carib layovers. It might not last forever unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1615881)
They did you a huge favor..... If you don't believe me, come back here and look this up in 2 years, and do the math.
DAL is gonna hire for at least 10 years. So is UAL, so is AAL. Lots and lots of pilots. SWA, not so much, not matter what smoke they are blowing about "growth" there. (You still have to account for the loss of 88 717s, and there isn't enough on the order book there to amount to any significant growth beyond that). Then take a look at the retirements at the legacies and the potential network expansions at them, then compare that to SWA. You should have sent them a thank you letter. |
Chirp chirp chirp......where's Shoelu?
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER
(Post 1615447)
-----Original Message-----
From: SWA Hiring <[email protected]> To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 5:28 pm Subject: Southwest Airlines First Officer Position April 1, 2014 Capt. F. R. Dogg Eagle Ridge Mountain, Colorado Dear F. R. Dogg: ** You may disregard this letter, if you have been selected for a class date with Southwest Airlines. Due to our various postings for the same position, you may have submitted your application more than once.** Thank you for your interest in the First Officer position at Southwest Airlines during the September 2013 application window. Southwest is fortunate to receive interest from many qualified Candidates for the limited number of open Pilot positions at a given time. At this time, the September 2013 application window is closed and all interviews have been conducted for our First Quarter 2014 class dates. After careful consideration, you were not selected at this time to move forward in our hiring process. You are welcome to apply when Southwest has First Officer openings in the future, through Southwest Airlines Careers during a future Pilot hiring event. We wish you success in your career endeavors and thank you again for your interest in Southwest Airlines. Sincerely, Southwest Airlines People Department ******* CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE ******* This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message from your system. Thank you. reply: Dear Southwest Airlines, Thank you for your timely response to my September 2013 pilot application to your company. It is clear to me now that interviews for your First Quarter 2014 class dates are over now that the first quarter of 2014 has been over for two days. I was beginning to wonder if they were going to interview me and pre-date my class. Obviously, with the tens of thousands of applications you are sifting through, a response to a lowly civilian freight dog is, by necessity, at the very bottom of your priority list and I am thankful that you have left the opportunity for me to reapply when your window is reopened. Clearly, your HR department has made the smart move to pass me over due to my lack of qualifications and experience. While I would have thought that my 11.380 total hours of flight time (7,190 in heavy jets) and my six type ratings earned over a six year career at American Eagle, fourteen years at DHL Airways and now three years at Atlas Air, along with a record of no accidents, incidents, violations, DUI's or training failures would have been adequate for at least an invitation for an interview, I know now that the Southwest bar is set to a much higher standard than I could ever hope to reach. Little did I realize that in the midst of a pilot shortage that there would be such a flood of super funny space shuttle pilots ahead of me in line at Southwest. That said, however, with inexplicable clairvoyance, your HR department must have foreseen my confusion over the abrupt change of personality of the Southwest culture and determined that I would not fit in there. This bewilderment of mine would certainly have become embarrassingly evident during an interview as I most assuredly would have been unable to reconcile the armchair emergency scenario lap dance with the new hierarchy established within your pilot corps that was established when Southwest merged with AirTran in 2010. Quite honestly, my perception of Southwest Airlines was far different from what it really is. Previously, my understanding of the company that Herb Kelleher founded was one of unmitigated success and profits propelled by a corporate culture of camaraderie, cleverness, and fun. Little did I realize that the real key to the success was a hidden undercurrent of elite one-upmanship and an uncompromising ability to climb up the backs of any pilot group that dared to let themselves be merged with SWA. So, it is with sad eyes that I watch the proud Southwest fleet of 737's sail off into the sunset without me in their ranks for I realize now that I will never be a part of an airline with a lifetime of continuous profits run by clever and faultless managers and staffed by hilarious astronauts with perfect safety records. With wistful resignation, I remain, Capt. F. R. Dogg Don't know that I'd be willing to wager my career on Atlas surviving after you've burned a bridge with every major that doesn't fall all over itself to hire you. It's competitive, and I doubt there are many people who get every single job they apply for, much less on the first try. Good luck to you. |
So you lowered yourself to applying, on your own accord, to a lowly 737 operator. ...one form letter from HR and you have this holier than thou response. Maybe they see the writing on the wall already with how you will be. If that is all it takes to set you off I would get used to getting more of those letters.
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It's amazing how many pilots are just A-holes!!! Why do some of you give rat about his response. He does have very good point. No?
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Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter
(Post 1616069)
It's amazing how many pilots are just A-holes!!! Why do some of you give rat about his response. He does have very good point. No?
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Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter
(Post 1616069)
It's amazing how many pilots are just A-holes!!! Why do some of you give rat about his response. He does have very good point. No?
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8
The response was nothing but pure genius. The applause is deafening from your former coworkers. It was a pleasure working with you. Art is laughing as well. |
Expected responses from both sides of issue. What I find disgusting is when someone wished ill of the guy. That's below the belt. He wrote a good piece of satire. A letter we wish we could all write at some point in our careers.
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Originally Posted by blakman7
(Post 1616013)
Chirp chirp chirp......where's Shoelu?
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Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter
(Post 1616069)
It's amazing how many pilots are just A-holes!!! Why do some of you give rat about his response. He does have very good point. No?
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER
(Post 1615447)
I would have thought that my 11.380 total hours of flight time
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I'd be frustrated too if you just get an off the bat rejection letter without even an interview. If you want him to play games and see how many times he will reapply just to be "fresh" at least have the courtesy to inform him that his app has expired due to the mass flood of apps and that if he is still interested to re submit the application and that will hold his place in line. I could see if it was not competitive that a rejection letter could be understandable...but he has a crazy amount of time.
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I thought it was pretty funny, but I sure don't have the brass balls to burn a bridge that thoroughly!
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Originally Posted by Delta1067
(Post 1616122)
No he doesn't. He is of the entitlement type. Reality is that guys like him are a dime a dozen. He does have experience but he is no where close to the top of the app stack.
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
(Post 1616155)
Do you think you as a Mesaba flowthrough were any where close to the top the Delta app stack? It looks like he is more qualified than the average applicant with his flight time and quality.
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20 years from now, most of the best and worst airlines will trade places.
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Originally Posted by shoelu
(Post 1616113)
I surely don't know what they are imputing to spit out qualified applicants or I would be able to score interviews for several friends that have asked me for help getting them an interview. Only the person programming the computer knows what exact mix will land your application at the top of the stack.
:D |
Originally Posted by Delta1067
(Post 1616122)
No he doesn't. He is of the entitlement type. Reality is that guys like him are a dime a dozen. He does have experience but he is no where close to the top of the app stack.
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Those who dis me for saying it's all a crap shoot......well, seriously......It's all a crap shoot. All we can do is check as many boxes as we can, prepare as much as we can and then at some point it is completely out of our hands......But I would say, there is one thing that we do have ultimate control over, and that's our positive attitude.....so keep it.......and ultimately the big man up stairs has a plan and we have to trust in him.......Good luck all......
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Originally Posted by paintyourjet
(Post 1616177)
20 years from now, most of the best and worst airlines will trade places.
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Every time SW turns down someone, God kills a kitten :eek: Well written letter but IMO, take it like a man, have some military bearing. Turned down, roger that, move on. Just my .02!
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Maybe it's time that something be said. After all it takes lots of time to fill out a application. Maybe the least that should be expected is a polite response. My least favorite saying, that's just the way it is. I call BS and enough.
You ever wonder how the 1% seem to control the other 99%? It's because we let them and just sit and take it. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1616217)
I even agree with shoelu..
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Can't ever get enough of WHACKMASTER.
Two observations: he's in the same boat as Napolean and the Wizard of Oz with a severe self esteem problem. It's sad that he couldn't get hired at SWA and now he's ****ed to be acquired. It's the same that he tells everyone how great it is at all of the other airlines--but doesn't have the will or ability to go to one of those airlines himself. It's a shame since that would make everyone happy. |
Originally Posted by twentyretardten
(Post 1615887)
Give me a break. Don't you get it, he doesn't give a ****** what they think. Thanks for sharing and wish I would have thought about that after getting a rejection email from AA. What turds having people spend many hours itemizing time and filling out a psych eval just to apply. Would rather them just say "non fighter pilots need not apply".
What part would you eliminate, filling out your flying experience or the psych eval? The number of fighter pilots getting hired is probably less than 25% and could be much lower so that's not a requirement. |
Originally Posted by A320Flyer
(Post 1615812)
Not sure what the allure about going to SW nowadays is. Yes, yes. I get it, they make descent money. But I'm not sure that does it for me. Came to Spirit 7 years ago, been left seat for almost 2 (flying with my favorite captain!), got my guaranteed 4 days off in a row per the CBA, work some OT and credit an average of 110 hours a month (not bad money at all). Currently half way up the list in base, and almost top third of the master list. Descent layovers (just spent 24 hours in a Cabo resort), excellent crews (and some very young, fun, hottie F/A's). Aggressive growth, new jets, profitable business model (read ATW's "The New Southwest?" article). You don't need a Space Shuttle type-rating, or be an alumnus of the Fighter Weapons School to be eligible, although it might be a plus. Many ex-World, Omni, DHL and most recently expats from Etihad and Emirates are being hired. 24 a month.
Maybe the SW thing is a little overrated. But might be worth a shot. *not a personal attack. You asked, I answered.* |
Originally Posted by milky
(Post 1616456)
When you are willing to work as a captain for FO wages, you should never, ever complain that the industry has screwed you in any way. You seem happy to be flying where you are and getting paid what you are. I would never take that kind of pay cut and loss of future earnings. I think that is what most people will not say to you. I am glad you enjoy your job. I'm sorry that many like you will continue to be a downward pressure on our pay and benefits. At least the looming shortage will likely counter that pressure.
*not a personal attack. You asked, I answered.* I think that's being just a little unfair. It wasn't too long ago that spirit's rates were in line with the lower end of the legacies and the upper end of the nationals (still true). He upgraded in a short time and enjoys some seniority at an airline that has a very successful business model. Just because he isn't at the top of the food chain does not make him a sellout or someone who settled. IMO, his QOL and career potential both look better than a SWA new hire's. But that's just me. |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1616464)
Milky;
I think that's being just a little unfair. It wasn't too long ago that spirit's rates were in line with the lower end of the legacies and the upper end of the nationals (still true). He upgraded in a short time and enjoys some seniority at an airline that has a very successful business model. Just because he isn't at the top of the food chain does not make him a sellout or someone who settled. IMO, his QOL and career potential both look better than a SWA new hire's. But that's just me. |
The support among Pilot's these days is just magnificent. The " holier then thou's" pitted against the " I ain't got mine" crowd. I can't wait until our jobs are automated then we can all have something in common.
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Originally Posted by milky
(Post 1616477)
I do not think SWA is the place to be going right now either. Spirit, SWA, LCC... Downward pressure on wages. Tell yourself that you have better QOL while you try to scrape by. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be happy he has a job. I'm just saying there are plenty of us out here that value our time and experience more. I wish him the best of luck. Just don't ever let me catch somebody like him wondering what happened to the glory days where pilots were well-compensated and treated like professionals.
That's pretty far from just scraping by. I'll stand by while you explain to me your strategy of getting us all back to the Cadillac-a-month pay levels. |
Originally Posted by Bwipilot
(Post 1616416)
Can't ever get enough of WHACKMASTER.
Two observations: he's in the same boat as Napolean and the Wizard of Oz with a severe self esteem problem. It's sad that he couldn't get hired at SWA and now he's ****ed to be acquired. It's the same that he tells everyone how great it is at all of the other airlines--but doesn't have the will or ability to go to one of those airlines himself. It's a shame since that would make everyone happy. I know it seems unfathomable to SWAPA pilots that someone would actually not have any desire to work there. You're obviously part of the, "AirTran pilots are those pilots that couldn't get hired at SWA and deserve nothing short of a staple" crowd. At least fess up to it. It's obvious from your posts. Get over yourself and your crappy airline. My regional carrier was better run than this airline and had a much better safety record. As for going somewhere else, all options are on the table. Of course, you know that I'm just scum that couldn't get hired anywhere else so you might be stuck with me :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by milky
(Post 1616477)
Just don't ever let me catch somebody like him wondering what happened to the glory days where pilots were well-compensated and treated like professionals.
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Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
(Post 1616513)
I know it seems unfathomable to SWAPA pilots that someone would actually not have any desire to work there. |
Really? Seriously?
8 Pages of replies and not one person noted the date of the supposed SW letter... APRIL 1st! The other giveaways? Six types in 6 years at Eagle? Eagle doesn't even HAVE 6 different types do they? Email domain of recipient, @howl.com? Like a dog, a FREIGHT DOG, howling? Hilarious nonetheless! Well done DC8! |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1616464)
Milky;
I think that's being just a little unfair. It wasn't too long ago that spirit's rates were in line with the lower end of the legacies and the upper end of the nationals (still true). He upgraded in a short time and enjoys some seniority at an airline that has a very successful business model. Just because he isn't at the top of the food chain does not make him a sellout or someone who settled. IMO, his QOL and career potential both look better than a SWA new hire's. But that's just me. |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1616464)
Milky;
I think that's being just a little unfair. It wasn't too long ago that spirit's rates were in line with the lower end of the legacies and the upper end of the nationals (still true). He upgraded in a short time and enjoys some seniority at an airline that has a very successful business model. Just because he isn't at the top of the food chain does not make him a sellout or someone who settled. IMO, his QOL and career potential both look better than a SWA new hire's. But that's just me. |
Originally Posted by Busdriver320
(Post 1616535)
Really? Seriously?
8 Pages of replies and not one person noted the date of the supposed SW letter... APRIL 1st! The other giveaways? Six types in 6 years at Eagle? Eagle doesn't even HAVE 6 different types do they? Email domain of recipient, @howl.com? Like a dog, a FREIGHT DOG, howling? Hilarious nonetheless! Well done DC8! |
Originally Posted by milky
(Post 1616456)
When you are willing to work as a captain for FO wages, you should never, ever complain that the industry has screwed you in any way. You seem happy to be flying where you are and getting paid what you are. I would never take that kind of pay cut and loss of future earnings. I think that is what most people will not say to you. I am glad you enjoy your job. I'm sorry that many like you will continue to be a downward pressure on our pay and benefits. At least the looming shortage will likely counter that pressure.
*not a personal attack. You asked, I answered.* *not trying to create a discussion about which airline is best. Just a point to those rejected and frustrated by SW that there are other descent options out there, be it DL, AA, NK, B6, etc...Personally, all things considered, I wouldn't accept a job there even if they handed it to me for free. |
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