Shot down by SWA
 

-----Original Message-----
From: SWA Hiring <[email protected]>
To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Apr 1, 2014 5:28 pm
Subject: Southwest Airlines First Officer Position

April 1, 2014

Capt. F. R. Dogg
Eagle Ridge
Mountain, Colorado


Dear F. R. Dogg:

** You may disregard this letter, if you have been selected for a class date with Southwest Airlines. Due to our various postings for the same position, you may have submitted your application more than once.**

Thank you for your interest in the First Officer position at Southwest Airlines during the September 2013 application window. Southwest is fortunate to receive interest from many qualified Candidates for the limited number of open Pilot positions at a given time. At this time, the September 2013 application window is closed and all interviews have been conducted for our First Quarter 2014 class dates.

After careful consideration, you were not selected at this time to move forward in our hiring process. You are welcome to apply when Southwest has First Officer openings in the future, through Southwest Airlines Careers during a future Pilot hiring event.

We wish you success in your career endeavors and thank you again for your interest in Southwest Airlines.

Sincerely,

Southwest Airlines People Department
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reply:

Dear Southwest Airlines,
Thank you for your timely response to my September 2013 pilot application to your company. It is clear to me now that interviews for your First Quarter 2014 class dates are over now that the first quarter of 2014 has been over for two days. I was beginning to wonder if they were going to interview me and pre-date my class. Obviously, with the tens of thousands of applications you are sifting through, a response to a lowly civilian freight dog is, by necessity, at the very bottom of your priority list and I am thankful that you have left the opportunity for me to reapply when your window is reopened.

Clearly, your HR department has made the smart move to pass me over due to my lack of qualifications and experience. While I would have thought that my 11.380 total hours of flight time (7,190 in heavy jets) and my six type ratings earned over a six year career at American Eagle, fourteen years at DHL Airways and now three years at Atlas Air, along with a record of no accidents, incidents, violations, DUI's or training failures would have been adequate for at least an invitation for an interview, I know now that the Southwest bar is set to a much higher standard than I could ever hope to reach. Little did I realize that in the midst of a pilot shortage that there would be such a flood of super funny space shuttle pilots ahead of me in line at Southwest.

That said, however, with inexplicable clairvoyance, your HR department must have foreseen my confusion over the abrupt change of personality of the Southwest culture and determined that I would not fit in there. This bewilderment of mine would certainly have become embarrassingly evident during an interview as I most assuredly would have been unable to reconcile the armchair emergency scenario lap dance with the new hierarchy established within your pilot corps that was established when Southwest merged with AirTran in 2010. Quite honestly, my perception of Southwest Airlines was far different from what it really is. Previously, my understanding of the company that Herb Kelleher founded was one of unmitigated success and profits propelled by a corporate culture of camaraderie, cleverness, and fun. Little did I realize that the real key to the success was a hidden undercurrent of elite one-upmanship and an uncompromising ability to climb up the backs of any pilot group that dared to let themselves be merged with SWA.

So, it is with sad eyes that I watch the proud Southwest fleet of 737's sail off into the sunset without me in their ranks for I realize now that I will never be a part of an airline with a lifetime of continuous profits run by clever and faultless managers and staffed by hilarious astronauts with perfect safety records.

With wistful resignation, I remain,

Capt. F. R. Dogg

I enjoyed that! I applied three times and never had any luck. I will not apply again. Best of luck!

Great response. Very clever also.

Semantics.........

But it could be argued that it's not technically a "shoot down" if one didn't go through the full interview process. USAir does the same thing. And it seems that AA did as well.

Just got my TBNT email today as well. You are not alone!

That's awesome! Did you actually send the response?

It sucks getting shot down but that's just how it goes. I guess it's better than no response at all. It got me thinking about all the places I've applied to over the years. I've been shot down so many times that I came to expect it. It's the ones you never get a response from that drive me crazy.

For those that got "shot down" for an interview invite; was anyone type rated in a 737? I don't have the type, so I don't expect an invite-regardless of how many hrs I have or experience.

Classic and hilarious response! There's another spin to this however. Have you considered that you're too qualified? It might sound ridiculous to hear that but SWA had a real retention problem from 98-00 and I believe this problem will be resurfacing soon. Every other week I fly with FOs who tell me they're poised to bail when Delta calls. With the time you have you're ripe for Delta, UAL, AA, UPS etc. Just a thought.

Got my TBNT e-mail yesterday as well. Reapplied, you gotta do what you gotta do.
I do not have a 737 type rating.

DC8DRIVER: I ?/-*ing love you!!! If I ever catch up with you at a bar, I'm buying you EVERYTHING behind it! I love you man.

Yours Truly,

Former AirTran Cptn "LUVed" all the way back to the right seat.

I'm guessing you didn't smear your app with kitten blood?

Wow, entitlement generation strikes again. Haha

You have to actually sacrifice a live puppy and eat it's intestines in front of Herb and Colleen.

I thought Herb was dead?

I'll eat a kitten, I mean Colleen's puzzy, in front of Herb, if he's still alive, but it would probably kill him to watch me do it...:D

No, that is an incorrect observation 8ball, he is not in the entitlement mindset with his creds; you're thinking of the 2000 hour CRJ copilot with 2 years in. Know when to respect ones frustration after YEARS and HOURS of experience.
Obviously he didn't get the call because he didn't have community service! ;)

Yeah.
If in doubt tell them that you will gladly work for free.
My super secret squirrel resources tell me it puts you at the top of the pack for an Airline Interview!

I dunno Timbo, that seems a pretty steep price to pay for admission...

Let's just cut to the chase. He didn't get the call more than likely because he's purely civilian. Of course, he could be a complete social reject and we would never know just by this forum.

However, when at least 5 out of 6 Cptns I fly with are ex-military (mostly Air Force), and the only people I see rising to the Flt Ops management ranks are ALL ex-military, it does give one the impression that never having been a part of a squadron or having had a "call sign", does severely hamper your chances of employment with SWA.

Considering the "get the mission done" mentality, do all the overruns and incidents actually surprise anyone? There's currently three ongoing investigations at SWA by the NTSB. One for landing at the wrong airport (Branson). The other for the LGA incident where the dumb c()t collapsed the nose wheel, and the final one for a severe tail-strike on landing in LAS which has potentially totaled a new -800.

The Flt Ops at this airline is a complete disaster.

It sure does seem that the cultural tide has changed significantly over the last 10 years, at least as seen from a frequent jumpseater.

I admittedly got tired of, "Why don't you work here?" and "When are you submitting your stuff?"............

As it happens, and this may seem completely implausible, but I'm actually happy at my current non-SWA company. Hope they stay happy and I stay happy.

Nice response, DC8.

I received the same letter. Not elitist at all. I'm a 12K total time RJ driver, served as a grunt in the Army. I've applied every time the window was open at LUV. I've lost count of the number of times I've applied. I don't have the 737 type. I don't know what it takes to get 'in' there. You'd think the NUMEROUS recommendations from former freight pilots that got in at LUV would at least get me an interview....but that hasn't come to fruition. I'm still undecided if I'm going to apply this time. I'm tired. I'm just tired of the same thing over, and over, and over.

At least you have not doomed yourself to hard landings and max breaking. :-)

got mine as well....

You got it wrong, big time. You have to kill a young kitten, not tongue-lash an old beaver. Sick...

Well the upshot DC8driver is that you'll get on with a carrier that lands at the right airport, doesn't damage their aircraft, run off the runway have a series of maintenance violations... like... what's the name of that airline in Indonesia???? Oh yeah... Lion Air.:rolleyes:

Rumors are that SW may be blackballed from Indonesia too:eek:

SWA, like many airlines before them, are experiencing growing pains for sure. Remember when Delta used to stand for "Don't ever land There again?" Many of you may be too young to remember the many incidences in the late 80s early 90s.

As far as the app flush, they do it so that they get fresh and current apps from a pool of folks that still actually want to work here. If SWA is where you want to be, and for this 11,000 hour plus, all civilian, former 121 guy with a significant hiatus after my airline folded (6 years ago today, btw,) it is the only place I had considered.

So keep applying, keep a good attitude. Definitely keep networking, because when the invite comes, you ARE going to want friends on the inside who will vouch for you.

For what it's worth, I'm sitting in a class right now that is split just about evenly down the middle with half military and half all civilian guys.

Good luck to all those who wish to be here!

Any issues with recency then? That's my Achilles's Heel at present.

Got my TBNT..Let's see, that's the third airline I've gotten the TBNT for an interview :confused:

Got a TBNT letter in fall of 2011 after the interview. The worst interview experience imaginable.

They invited me back last October. I declined. They called. I told them why. I didn't use any F bombs.

The ju ju is bad over there.

OP: Are you 737 typed? Sorry if you posted it, I didn't see one way or the other.

I'll give you a conditional ha-ha if you've got a type rating. If not, then I'll have to play the Price is Right failure song and say quit whining. I'm from the favored child callsign bearing military pilot fraternity and also got no call... with no type. I've got friends in the same boat with a type, a perfect record, and more internals than you and I combined (which I'm pretty certain doesn't matter until you actually get an interview) who also didn't get called.

They're flushing the app pool and starting again. I got the letter, all my crash pad roommates did too. It's a generic form letter. What did you think, by sending that they would change their mind? What you did was erase any chance of ever having a shot there, ever, since they turned around and reopened the window. If you got all butthurt and took the time to draft a response to a form letter, you've got some seriously thin skin, and it comes off as completely pathetic and immature. Right now the HR people are saying "wow, glad we didn't give that guy a shot." Quite possible other HR departments are looking up your listed quals and matching them up to apps in their stacks for a black flag too.

Can't say I too young as I've been flying for more than 35 years, of which 22 years have been overseas.

My point is that SW is not the be all end all airline to wind up at.

May your career path take you to your retirement with Southwest.

Took 4 years off, flew an Air Ambo King Air for two years. The lack of currency was a factor the first time. I don't think they'll call you in unless you're flying at least 100-150 hours a year.

All civilian. Have the type. TBNT. I'll keep trying.

Maybe it comes off as immature and pathetic to you but to me the guy's my hero. If you get hired here and have the "privelage" of flying the line with the majority of Cptns who have zero prior 121 experience, you'll see how asinine it is that this guy with three airlines under his belt, 11,000+ hours (7,200+) in heavy transport category jets gets passed over for others who have zero experience flying an airliner under Part 121 and have a quarter of the hours that he does.

Assuming that you're a civilian guy (as you mentioned a crashpad), spend a little time on the line here and you'll soon understand why this place has the reputation it does for not keeping it on pavement as well as all the other incidents you see (and don't see that don't make it to the media. I.e. The new -800 that's probably totaled due to a really bad tail-strike in LAS).

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have to sit in the tiller-less seat now and witness the pax and FAs get thrown around on the ground because Cptn. Doesn't Understand How to Smoothly Operate and Aircraft with People on it is at the helm? THAT'S frustrating and yet this guy with oodles of experience gets turned down.

As a disclaimer if he had a $chitty attitude or wasn't typed I can certainly understand the rejection as they're probably interviewing to fill the three classes during June & July, but if that's the case why interview him?!

Not sure what the allure about going to SW nowadays is. Yes, yes. I get it, they make descent money. But I'm not sure that does it for me. Came to Spirit 7 years ago, been left seat for almost 2 (flying with my favorite captain!), got my guaranteed 4 days off in a row per the CBA, work some OT and credit an average of 110 hours a month (not bad money at all). Currently half way up the list in base, and almost top third of the master list. Descent layovers (just spent 24 hours in a Cabo resort), excellent crews (and some very young, fun, hottie F/A's). Aggressive growth, new jets, profitable business model (read ATW's "The New Southwest?" article). You don't need a Space Shuttle type-rating, or be an alumnus of the Fighter Weapons School to be eligible, although it might be a plus. Many ex-World, Omni, DHL and most recently expats from Etihad and Emirates are being hired. 24 a month.
Maybe the SW thing is a little overrated. But might be worth a shot.

While I agree, I'm getting my popcorn ready...

Yup, sounds exactly like my experience at AirTran right up until we "won the LUV lottery". I just jumpseated on you guys. Great experience. I agree with the observation that you guys have some great potential and hope that WHEN someone buys you you'll fair better than we did. Enjoy the family atmosphere, new equipment, and Latin America/Carib layovers. It might not last forever unfortunately.

And it wasn't too long ago that a SW pilot would be saying the SAME things you are. And at that time, if someone was to mention Spirit, it'd be "Spirit, who's that? Wait, is that the crappy/ghetto company flying MD80s with pilots that can't get hired elsewhere, working for next to nothing?"

Interesting how times change........

to DC8Driver.
 

They did you a huge favor..... If you don't believe me, come back here and look this up in 2 years, and do the math.

DAL is gonna hire for at least 10 years. So is UAL, so is AAL. Lots and lots of pilots. SWA, not so much, not matter what smoke they are blowing about "growth" there. (You still have to account for the loss of 88 717s, and there isn't enough on the order book there to amount to any significant growth beyond that). Then take a look at the retirements at the legacies and the potential network expansions at them, then compare that to SWA. You should have sent them a thank you letter.

Give me a break. Don't you get it, he doesn't give a ****** what they think. Thanks for sharing and wish I would have thought about that after getting a rejection email from AA. What turds having people spend many hours itemizing time and filling out a psych eval just to apply. Would rather them just say "non fighter pilots need not apply".