Before recall/newhire speculation gets out of hand, wait for age 60 ruling by FAA administrator Ms. Blakely in coming weeks. If retirement age is extended to 65 you can bet there will be NO hiring by any legacy carriers for several years. Should it pass, it will be interesting how retirement calculators will be affected by the last two airlines with acitve 'A' plans such as American and Alaska.

 

If upping the age gets shot down yet AGAIN, it probably will never happen. I think they are keeping it to 10-20 a month to see what happens with that legislation. If it does get shot down, this time, AA will probably have to step it up to 40-45 pilots per month, and WHAMMO, instant off-the-street hiring, probably by mid 2008.

 

How long does some one on furlough have recall rights? For example if they are furloughed for 7 years do they still have recall rights?

 

So far, recall rights are unlimited.

It's my humble opinion, that once the company gets to the staple point where as all returning pilots will be former TWA Captains and senior F/Os we are thinking the APA (the union) will trade our recall rights for something like a pension contribution, a pay raise etc.

I don't agree that there will be hiring in 2008. I don't think the recall process that has started will extend to all pilots on furlough. I don't see the economy strong enough nor have I read anything from AMR suggesting mass expansion to the tune of a recall of almost 2900 pilots.

Most of the legacy carriers have or are close to recalling all of their pilots on furlough. I have heard a number, that only 60% returned maybe as low as a percentage in the 50s. I think the furloughed seniority list at AA is slightly unique from their legacy rivals in that at other carriers the list was the pilots that had the least years of service and were usally on lower wages or B-scale rates. A hypothetical example would be, the most senior furlougheed at airline XYZ was on 4th year widebody F/O rates whereas the most junior furloughee was on new hire, first year pay.

The AA list contains many that went from their narrowbody Capt seat to the street in less than a year. Back in 2001 - 2003, it was difficult to go from making $155/hr, then get furloughed and enjoy that same lifestyle. Those kind of aviation jobs back then were not available due to the state of the industry. My point is, many will return because there are scenarios that some could return as Capts or be reinstated shortly thereafter. Thus , in my opinion, making the recall rate higher than what we have seen at the other legacy carriers. The basic factors for this: Pay rate, return to the left seat, travel passes, good retirement for now.

Therefore I think hiring won't be for another 3-5 years. The only thing that would stop that is if the APA (union) negotiates our unlimited recall rights away. By doing this they could keep the high-priced, returning TWA pilots off the property and save AMR $$$ in payroll and maybe negotiate something better for them.

Just my opinion...your miles may vary.

 

Very good point.

Jetblaster

 

While the notion of keeping the infection of TWA pilots off the AA property is appealing, I doubt very much that recall rights will be negotiated away because AA pilots would not stand for something so openly underhanded and unfair. And, your comments show again a naivety for how things work in the industry; you will not see any big announcements of new aircraft purchases until we get a contract. Until then, a holding company is holding the orders for us. This is the way it always works. The age 60 is one variable, the length of negotiations the other. 2008 unless one of these two drags it out.

Jetblaster

 

New Aircraft purchases ???

You have any idea how many airplanes AMR leases that are in storage ???

No new mainline airplane purchases will be announced in 2008 nor will AMR be doing any hiring. Betcha .

Unfotunately, radicals like you validate my postings and opinions about how the APA would nego away our recall rights.

/s/ Your fellow co-worker..an infected TWA pilot.

 

Flifast,

First off, you're not infected. You are an AA pilot on furlough. You are no more ex-TWA than I am ex-ACA.

Second, the 80s must be replaced. You didn't hear it from me, but a good friend of mine at Boeing has hinted that we might be the launch customer for the 737-X (737 desgined from the 787 assembly.) A lot of AA delegations making the rounds up in Seattle, so he says.

Thirdly, you can call the APA a lot of things, but negotiating away recall rights for their own on the street will never be on the agenda - regardless of where they came from. If anything, they will try and negotiate LOS when all furloughees are back, just like they did in the 90s.

Once we sign our new contract, AA will unleash a pretty big aircraft order. We have the cash ($6B plus) and we need a fleet renewal plan. But it will be contingent on us signing a new contract, as it always has been. Couple that with age 60 probably being in the $hitter, and you'll see us hiring in the next 3 years. Heck, we've already increased to 20/month, going to 40/month by summer. Just wait.

73

 

73,

Hope you're right about a lot of the things in your posting. Good info, thanks.

 

Gosh, sounds a lot like what I said. 2008 will be the year, unless the contract is dragged out. I agree that age 60 looks like a long shot.

Jetblaster