Thanks...and I meant to type "Free Loaders" in my earlier post, not Fred Loaders! (my damned spell checker had been drinking).

But....there was this one non-member named Fred and...

There was some debate when Delta became an Agency Shop, the debate being how could you 'vote with your feet' (take your money and leave ALPA) if you didn't like what they were doing.

The other side of the debate was; you benefit from the pay/work rules/representation and job protections that ALPA negotiates, you should pay for that. Thus the "Contract Administration fee".

 

My biggest gripe about being in a union is that we use a seniority system. That ensures that you are promoted not based on how good a pilot you are, but simply by how long you've been with the airline. That means the crappy pilots get promoted along with the good pilots. The worst pilots of group never get let go, and instead become the senior captains.

Every time an airline tries to do merit based upgrades, there is major outrage. Virgin America and XoJet were the two most recent I was aware of. A seniority system assures that the pilots just barely good enough to not get fired will be your Captain someday. I would love to get rid of it.

I would like that as well. A lot of doctors and engineers are salaried but get overtime (paid at a straight time rate normally) for working above and beyond a normal work week. We are essentially salaried (75 hour guarantee) with the opportunity to make overtime if we work extra hours.

Also, I have read Flying the Line Volume 1. I suggest you read Atlas Shrugged.

 

Those that you define barely good enough, they still have to pass the initial training first, and upgrade training later. Those that excel are given check airmen positions. Check airmen can, and do, fail the ones you call crappy pilots.

The point is that flying a plane is not so hard at all, but decision making skills are fostered by experience, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with a seniority system, and actually works quite well.

The alternative (merit based) easily becomes brown nosing based, and it might let advance pilots that not only don't have the experience, but lack in basic flying skills too. This happens all the time in small non unionized airlines, bottom feeders charters and some poor managed corporates.

If you dislike the seniority system, and unionized labor, you should look elsewhere for employment, but not into a Major. See how it works out for you. You might even end up happier in corporate.
But remember what you give up, and be careful when the young gun comes in and tries low ball your boss. Or when you are the department manager, and your pilots fly away with the accounts.

Either we like it or not, we are seen by management as overpaid bus drivers, expensive hourly paid blue collars. Our defense is unity.

 

What' s wrong with a list on non members?
Would a list of members be ok?
Because if you have one
you necessarily know the other
Votes should be anonymous
memberships no
This is not the Skulls and Bones

 

Flying the line is a book written about actual events in the actual real world where real people actually lived and died. Atlas shrugged is a fiction novel about a fantasy world

Yeah those are the same things

 

I fully agree with NoSidnoStar's post above.

I've always thought the BEST thing about the seniority system was the fact that you don't have to kiss anyone's butt, or show up on your days off to suck up to move up, or acquire 'additional duties' or write your own OER, or any of that other crap we did in the military, just to get promoted. That system sucks just as badly as the seniority system.

However, with the seniority system, you WILL have to pass multiple checkrides before you move up to Captain, and if you are a 'problem child' you can bet you will be flagged, and you may not upgrade, and yes, they have fired pilots who failed checkrides. Try firing any suck up in the military.

 

No need for me to type a response when when Timbo, Airbum, and NoSidNoStar said it better than I could.

Denny

 

Funny, a few months back, on another section in this forum, I got grilled for being opposed to someone who would justify getting a fellow pilot fired for not going to work on his days off.

Thank you Timbo, you made me realize to which part of this forum not to pay attention anymore. I guess we always learn.

 

I loved Atlas Shrugged. I have no idea how you correlate it here, but a great book just the same

 

You work for a union airline now, get used to it. Publishing nonmembers names is something alpa, teamsters and other unions do. I submit to you by not joining the union and wanting to remain anonymous is childish and divisive. Dues paying members have a right to know who's free loading. If after a year is too soon, then how much longer should you wait?

Cheers