Virgin America pilots file with NMB
04-19-2015, 12:17 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,339
Originally Posted by Wilbur Wright
I'm not arguing, but can you give examples in history where a non-ALPA carrier has merged with an ALPA carrier and got "screwed?" (okay, screwed worse than any ALPA-ALPA merger.)
Back on topic, way to go VA and good luck!
Back on topic, way to go VA and good luck!
)Congrats on the vote, you probably would've benefited more from an independent in-house union but I guess this is better than nothing...
04-19-2015, 04:41 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by ridinhigh
Going to need it for your merger.
Good luck!
Good luck!
I will also vouch if this happens, very likey the next move for B6 is the widebodies, which the new ceo is aiming for.
04-19-2015, 05:46 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,902
Originally Posted by CyFo145
Its pretty obvoius VA and B6 would be the outcome after this. VA needs to grow to be relavant and compete, but they have little capital to finance it, and a mere 10 airframes for the next 2 years is barely anything to do anything, they needs the broader shoulders of B6 where they are pushing now over 210+ aurframes with about 100 on order next several years, mostly bigger, more efficient A321ceo/neo's, and B6 can surely benefit with stronger west coast hubs, kick lgb to the curb, and get rid of a transcon competitor. Pkus with the success of Mint, VA is falling behind with the jfk-cali xcon flights.
I will also vouch if this happens, very likey the next move for B6 is the widebodies, which the new ceo is aiming for.
I will also vouch if this happens, very likey the next move for B6 is the widebodies, which the new ceo is aiming for.
04-19-2015, 06:09 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by whalesurfer
I'll rephrase your question to "can you give examples in history where an alpo carrier merged with a non-alpo carrier and benefited from belonging to alpo?" (hint: that has NEVER happened! )
Congrats on the vote, you probably would've benefited more from an independent in-house union but I guess this is better than nothing...
)Congrats on the vote, you probably would've benefited more from an independent in-house union but I guess this is better than nothing...
04-19-2015, 07:38 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by whalesurfer
Congrats on the vote, you probably would've benefited more from an independent in-house union but I guess this is better than nothing...
FWIW, it doesn't really matter who you have ie. ALPA/Teamsters/In-House etc. If you don't have the right guys representing you, then you're gonna end up on the short end of the stick or a sharp stick in the eye. People need to start blaming the people who they've elected (or not even voted) and not the whole system.
04-19-2015, 07:44 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: A320
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by CyFo145
Its pretty obvoius VA and B6 would be the outcome after this. VA needs to grow to be relavant and compete, but they have little capital to finance it, and a mere 10 airframes for the next 2 years is barely anything to do anything, they needs the broader shoulders of B6 where they are pushing now over 210+ aurframes with about 100 on order next several years, mostly bigger, more efficient A321ceo/neo's, and B6 can surely benefit with stronger west coast hubs, kick lgb to the curb, and get rid of a transcon competitor. Pkus with the success of Mint, VA is falling behind with the jfk-cali xcon flights.
I will also vouch if this happens, very likey the next move for B6 is the widebodies, which the new ceo is aiming for.
I will also vouch if this happens, very likey the next move for B6 is the widebodies, which the new ceo is aiming for.
This is a bit incorrect. Since the IPO and restructuring our balance sheet is one of the best in the industry. Financing jets is not a problem right now. As to first class, I don't know who's customers mint is stealing but it's not ours. I do tons of transcons and our first is always full. Only thing that has changed is the price. Mint slashed the fairs across the board. But I'm sure those are more introductory prices. And as far as competition, our planes are full. We are making money, and most of us expect an aircraft order for next year.
So is there benefits to a tie up? Yes, probably. Does virgin need blue? Nope.
04-19-2015, 10:26 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by 4andCounting
Well,
This is a bit incorrect. Since the IPO and restructuring our balance sheet is one of the best in the industry. Financing jets is not a problem right now. As to first class, I don't know who's customers mint is stealing but it's not ours. I do tons of transcons and our first is always full. Only thing that has changed is the price. Mint slashed the fairs across the board. But I'm sure those are more introductory prices. And as far as competition, our planes are full. We are making money, and most of us expect an aircraft order for next year.
So is there benefits to a tie up? Yes, probably. Does virgin need blue? Nope.
This is a bit incorrect. Since the IPO and restructuring our balance sheet is one of the best in the industry. Financing jets is not a problem right now. As to first class, I don't know who's customers mint is stealing but it's not ours. I do tons of transcons and our first is always full. Only thing that has changed is the price. Mint slashed the fairs across the board. But I'm sure those are more introductory prices. And as far as competition, our planes are full. We are making money, and most of us expect an aircraft order for next year.
So is there benefits to a tie up? Yes, probably. Does virgin need blue? Nope.
They need to seriously grow in order to be relevant out of SFO/LAX/JFK and which is why they are getting hammered on DAL-LGA/DCA with behemoth AA and large SWA.
One can also argue in many ways B6 doesn't really need VA, they can continue what they are doing, which is profitable growth and increasing ASM's much more than industry average. Thats a sign of a healthy co as noted here. JetBlue trumpets profitable growth as its capacity expansion remains above the industry average | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
B6 was in VA's spot in terms of size and market served back @ '05, but they knew they need to continue the massive hyper growth to work up to a robust network, much to the chagrin of Wall st. Yes, it loaded debt at the time, but it now paid off, they are paying it down alot of debt, and paying for all the new A321's this year with straight cash, VA needs to suck it up and do the same if they want to stay relevant down the road, but they are not because they want to please wall st too much. VA would benefit more out of merger much more than B6 in this case. B6 can continue what they are doing and be well suited for west coast expansion down the road with the network.
Also, just cause you fill up first, doesn't mean anything. Yields is what matters. Skybus had over 95% load factor and went out of business in less than a year.
04-20-2015, 04:51 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by CyFo145
The balance sheet is now good because they bulked to Wall Street and stifled all growth and raised money for the IPO. But lets be honest, how can VA compete with AA/UA etc with a meager 75+ fleet against AA/UA with over 750+ airframes + much lower CASM widebodies they have. VA will get crushed on the new SFO-HNL, mark my words. Virgin America opts to enter crowded Hawaii market as pressure lingers elsewhere in its network | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
They need to seriously grow in order to be relevant out of SFO/LAX/JFK and which is why they are getting hammered on DAL-LGA/DCA with behemoth AA and large SWA.
One can also argue in many ways B6 doesn't really need VA, they can continue what they are doing, which is profitable growth and increasing ASM's much more than industry average. Thats a sign of a healthy co as noted here. JetBlue trumpets profitable growth as its capacity expansion remains above the industry average | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
B6 was in VA's spot in terms of size and market served back @ '05, but they knew they need to continue the massive hyper growth to work up to a robust network, much to the chagrin of Wall st. Yes, it loaded debt at the time, but it now paid off, they are paying it down alot of debt, and paying for all the new A321's this year with straight cash, VA needs to suck it up and do the same if they want to stay relevant down the road, but they are not because they want to please wall st too much. VA would benefit more out of merger much more than B6 in this case. B6 can continue what they are doing and be well suited for west coast expansion down the road with the network.
Also, just cause you fill up first, doesn't mean anything. Yields is what matters. Skybus had over 95% load factor and went out of business in less than a year.
They need to seriously grow in order to be relevant out of SFO/LAX/JFK and which is why they are getting hammered on DAL-LGA/DCA with behemoth AA and large SWA.
One can also argue in many ways B6 doesn't really need VA, they can continue what they are doing, which is profitable growth and increasing ASM's much more than industry average. Thats a sign of a healthy co as noted here. JetBlue trumpets profitable growth as its capacity expansion remains above the industry average | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
B6 was in VA's spot in terms of size and market served back @ '05, but they knew they need to continue the massive hyper growth to work up to a robust network, much to the chagrin of Wall st. Yes, it loaded debt at the time, but it now paid off, they are paying it down alot of debt, and paying for all the new A321's this year with straight cash, VA needs to suck it up and do the same if they want to stay relevant down the road, but they are not because they want to please wall st too much. VA would benefit more out of merger much more than B6 in this case. B6 can continue what they are doing and be well suited for west coast expansion down the road with the network.
Also, just cause you fill up first, doesn't mean anything. Yields is what matters. Skybus had over 95% load factor and went out of business in less than a year.
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