You got accepted into Cornell AND Dartmouth but don't have any college credits?

This whole thread has me like:

http://media.giphy.com/media/3xFlNkB6ZzwWY/giphy.gif

Get the degree and keep hustlin'.

That's a Great bio.

If you like that, check out "The Aviators" which is a bio on Eddie Rickenbacker, Charles Lindbergh, and Jimmy Doolittle. Although I had read bits and pieces of each of these three aviation pioneers, (and Doolittle's bio, I could never be so lucky again) I had never read their full life stories, or knew about all their contributions to aviation.

The Aviators follows each of the big three from birth. Their childhood years, how each got into flying, their WW1 flying, the time between the wars, their WW2 flying, post war work, all the way to their deaths.

Great aviation history reading if you like that kind of thing.

No moron, there is no PENSION for FERS employees

Then, exactly what is that FERS check I get monthly? Sure looks like "pension" to me, but they call it the basic annuity.

GF

So it's worth the $15?

The Aviators: Eddie Rickenbacker, Jimmy Doolittle, Charles Lindbergh, and the Epic Age of Flight: Winston Groom: 9781426211560: Amazon.com: Books

$5.09
+ $3.99 shipping
+ $0.00 estimated tax

Used - Very Good Condition

220 reviews; 4 1/2 stars out of 5

That's the one. Very engrossing. Superb title for the content inside.

His commercial license was #11.

not a pension. CSRS = pension.

I am making a point to our heavy airbus driver who went to Dartmouth is reportedly is a current Air Traffic Controller hired in 2007 but will get a pension

I'm a IPAD guy, gonna get Kindle edition for $14.99

Thanks for the tip, crossing the Atlantic is boring, but boring is good.

Actually he turned down Dartmouth, hence his zero college credits statement.

ahhh, yes of course.

That right there. I was initially dead set on universities with the most impressive names. Then I did some math and realized in-state was insanely cheaper and better scholarships were attainable. Few people know the name of my school but it was a quality, well accredited program and I was debt free 2.5 years after graduation (on regional airline pay no less). The prices you pay for a brand name these days are insane.

This whole college thread is stupid. If you want to be a professional pilot get a degree. There are numerous options to do it at low or no cost. Start with 1.5 years of Junior college and then 1.5 years at a state school. Take summer sessions and winter sessions. Get some of it done in high school via AP classes. You don't even need to take 4 years, done in 3. Apply for free money, work a job and take a loan as a last resort.

Brand name is really only worth the money if...

1) You're going to compete at the pinnacle of your chosen field where the name-recognition gives you more horsepower and you may have better exposure to cutting-edge science. Ie a top-notch engineering Phd is better served by a degree from MIT than State U, and a high-end law firm needs ivy-league grads for credibility to justify high fees if nothing else.

2) You're going into a field where connections are important, ie B-school. Your Stanford classmates are collectively going faster and further than at lower-tier schools.

In aviation it doesn't matter as much (except DAL and maybe a few others give bonus points for high-end schools, but that's probably not worth a lot of debt unless you were going anyway).

Folks aren't paying for an education from those places. They are paying for cachet and life-long insider access, preferential treatment, networking, and favorable bias.

And they get it, too. Esp. from their own kind.

A four year degree was a requirement to get in to the military as an officer back in the day (I assume it is still a requirement?). Not sure of the value but I guess it shows you can accomplish something. I have found my Animal Science degree invaluable, especially on long flights where good conversation can be exhausted, and discussion of 22% protein feed rations and optimum carcass weights are almost interesting.

Yes still required and for very good reason. Plenty of enlisted show that they can accomplish something on a daily basis, that's not the issue. Since some officers will eventually fill senior leadership roles you want them to have a foundation of breadth, depth, and perspective far beyond their technical MOS. You can be a good airline pilot by being a good technician with some 101 leadership, but that does not apply to senior military officers who deal with large-scale life/death decisions, morality, and geo-political strategy.

A technician can get the job done (and the military has no shortage), the heavy questions are should we?, how?, when?, and why?

You lost me, SatPak, how is FERS not a pension? Yes, it is not as generous as CSRS, but it is a defined benefit combined with a defined contribution retirement plan.

GF

Weird, but I tend to think of airline pilots (without regard to position) as performing leadership roles requiring a foundation of breath, depth, and perspective as well.

I understand we inherited, through a merger long-ago (Northeast?), a group of guys that were mechanics originally, had become F/E's because the previous airline required F/E's to be mechanics, and they ended up in pilot seats. I don't remember the specifics, but I understand they were, well, very special to fly with.

There are a ton of people that don't have a college degree that would make fine pilots, but generally speaking, people that would make fine pilots would have no trouble getting a degree. There are also tons of people with degrees that should never be allowed within 50' of an aircraft. But people who can't get a degree probably shouldn't fly airplanes either. The requirement is just another way (not the only way, but an easy way) of checking that the person meets a minimum threshold. In other words, having a degree doesn't differentiate you much from other smart people, but not having one sure puts the burden on you to prove you qualify. For now, supply and demand are such that the applicant needs to meet the burden.

I guess I would agree with most of that, but you are not going to get that serior leadership position without PME. I guess that would be similar to advanced degrees in the civilian world.

The bottom line here is that it is a job requirement in most cases. If that is so...then get the degree...don't debate the whys.

I asked google. It took me to the FAA benefits page, which says that if hired after 83 you are in the FERS system. Which includes a small pension, but is mostly TSP.

I'm not sure which of you is therefore correct, although it doesn't meet my definition of a fully funded pension. Confused as to the debate, it's not like it's a secret.

PME is military-specific...professional stuff you got to know, but it doesn't wander far enough afield. The really senior guys need max exposure to the touchy-feely humanities stuff...they need to be thinking not just "how can I do this", but "how best to do it" and "should I really be doing it?". And the not-quite-so-senior (ie O6/O7) need some of that too IMO.

For a little perspective...

In 1968, the annual tuition cost of Harvard University was $2,000/yr.

Today, in 2015, it is $43,938.

That is a 2,096.6% increase in 47 years, or a 44.6%/year increase in cost.

:eek:

My buddy who graduated from Univ of Chicago ($50,000/yr or more) cannot spend all the money he makes.

I believe they call it the Man (W)hole concept 😜

Airline pilot leadership is not trivial but pales in comparison to the performance we NEED from very senior military leaders.

Pilots could do it without higher education, as can junior military officers. But the very senior senior officers (who by definition start as junior officers) need all the horizon broadening they can get.

Yes, you are correct. Petraeus, for instance, was very broad minded......

You forgot inflation.

Inflation adjusted it's a bit over 300% increase (not 2000%)

Ah yes. No, I didn't forget that. Thanks.

"Inflation adjusted"...

.....Federal Reserve speak for "just ignore us, nothing to see here".

Do you get paid to promote that nonsense or do you do it for free? ;)