Degree requirement
 

I know most legacy carriers require a 4 year degree. Delta/united/aa etc. However are they partial to certain schools or type of degrees? What about if someone 4 years, didnt complete, then finished it up online years later? I know that shows unwillingness to complete something, but once the degree requirement how much of that is weighed?

While you are put above anyone without a degree, you are put below anyone who finished in a timely matter. Delta looks at GPA, program of study, the university you went to, and the time it took you to complete your degree.

I think it is ridiculous, but whatever....

ANY degree from an accredited, state certified school, is better than no degree.

Many online degrees are offered by legit colleges with physical campus, and the degree is the same, just "method of delivery of instruction" is different.

Get your degree

While I haven't seen it yet in this thread, guys on here will readily defend the degree requirement. Yet these same guys will ***** about pay for training programs and who is working for what regional and so on. Spending thousands upon thousands of dollars, wasting time writing papers, and studying a bunch of worthless material that will have zero bearing on your flying abilities is pointless. Even WN's 737 type requirement had more merit than a requirement for a degree and they have gotten rid of that.

Guys are being hired without degrees. Evaluate your ROI on time and money and see if it is really worth doing.

Delta scores the application and looks hard at education. Often people complain that so & so got and interview, but I didn't even though our resumes are identical. What's being overlooked by the complainant is the education factor.

Applicants score more for a difficult degree (engineering, math, science), from a prestigious school, earned in four years. And 3.5 from Penn State is going to score better than a 2.3 from Penn State. A Masters degree adds points as does a PE,Test Pilot School,etc.

On line degrees, 6 years to finish, community college, easy degrees, poor gpa - score neutrally or are negatives.

Earning a degree while working your way through school is also recognized as a character marker and doesn't count against you if you take 5 years.

The DAL personnel scoring these resumes (DAL Captains former/active) are super serious about getting the very best candidates. Education means a lot to them (I've heard the brief).

Really? While some degrees might be a waste of ROI (like you assert), being able to demonstrate that you are trainable is basically the reason for a degree requirement. At this point in time it is a qualifier, and if you don't meet the standard, guess what? Actually, not having a degree in something OTHER than aviation is a really stupid thing to do if you pay any attention to the history of the industry. (Ask anyone that has ever been furloughed)

If you are right though, I wonder why it takes multiple advanced degrees to be an astronaut? After all, they get trained in Houston to do the job they need to do, right?

For Realtalk, don't put much weight in what this guy is saying. Yes, I'm sure there is some person without a degree who was hired at American or United, but 99% DO have a degree. Also, the 1% that were hired without a degree have some serious connection - like they worked for the company for 20 years, or they were the legacy of a CP or something.

I know people without degrees in this business, but they are at Virgin America, Spirit, Allegient or freight carriers. I'm sure they are happy where they are, but I've been at several freight carriers that didn't require a degree - life is much nicer, better benefits and better pay at places that require a degree.

A degree is much more than just a piece of paper. It shows perseverance, ability to see other viewpoints than your own, some level of integrity, etc. All that of course can be developed in the real world without a degree, but a college degree does it in 4 years with an generally accepted manner. It is what it is.

"Spending thousands upon thousands of dollars, wasting time writing papers, and studying a bunch of worthless material that will have zero bearing on your flying abilities is pointless."

Guys will **** and moan about the requirement to have a degrees while ignoring the statements by the airlines saying that it matters.

However, the app itself doesn't really give one a proper medium to explain such.

As in, one has a buddy do the internal Deltanet to get the app scored. Human eyes review app, notice 5+ years to get a degree as well as being employed that entire time DOESNT automatically trigger the "oh, they must have been working to put themselves through, hence the 5+ years".

At a job fair, sure, one COULD explain the situation.

For Pete's sake. Enough with this degree/no degree crap.
You want to work at ABC airline, look at their requirement. If its required, go get it. If its not, then dont.
I have a bachelors and an MBA (finish my bachelors and got the MBA while flying for a regional).
I was recently hired at a Legacy.
And while Im enjoying my new airline, its nice to know that if something happens to me and I can no longer fly, I have something to fall back to and still provide adequately to my family.
Personally I dont know how guys spend hours on this debate. Who cares? The big question is what you are going to do if you can no longer be in aviation and all you have to fall back to is a HS diploma.
Those that depend on you deserve your best efforts.
Enough with my rant....Carry on with the pointless complaint how life is unfair....

I know a number of pilots who got hired at DAL shortly after completing a degree at Thomas-Edison. In fact, a lot of people I know got hired at airlines not long after finishing school, even years later. The time issue is a factor more if it takes you 6 years to get a BS, for example.

GPA has become a factor at some places.

That's the way college used to be, today it is a joke. The university I went to, now has a decompress room, where students can escape to safety if they hear a viewpoint they don't like.

If college goes back to the way it was, I will change my view, but right now it is immoral to ask someone to take on that much debt for something of no value anymore.

I looked into become an airline pilot during those silly job skills tests that I did in middle school. Even then, it said you needed a bachelor's degree. What I don't understand is, why so many people knowing that requirement, complain that it's not fair? Is it fair that military officers are required to have any bachelor's degree? Is it fair that I chose to work my tail off to meet the universally accepted requirements while others have taken shortcuts?

If the only requirement to get hired at a major airline was exceptional stick and rudder skills, then every single one would put you into a simulator and see how you reacted under adverse flying conditions. How many do that? What does that tell you about their perception on the importance of being a "good stick."

Other than flow-throughs, etc, I have not heard of anyone getting hired without a degree this cycle. In fact, airlines have gone from merely requiring a degree to weighing GPA, time to completion, etc.

I was waiting it out and finally decided to finish school. Once I got started, and recently finished, I realize it has all been worth it. It's always much better to apply yourself and do well than wait for things to happen.

It's not easy setting aside the time with a job, check rides, family, other interests and charitable activities, but you can make it all work and in the end you'll be glad you did.

PS: I did it without debt, finding ways to pay as I went. I would do it all again.

I do think it is a bit ridiculous to use the length of time it took a candidate to finish their degree as a discriminator. It took me a lot longer than 5 years to finish mine while I worked full-time and supported a family. I do somewhat understand Delta's logic behind the requirement though. It is their show and they can run it any way they like. For those that want a job at a Major, earn the degree. For those like me that took a decade to earn the undergraduate, consider a Masters. They can be affordable and it's a great way to improve yourself and help your resume stand out! It's also a great way to kill time in a hotel room....just my worthless two cents.

Sadly, ^^^ seems to be more and more prevelant. With today's "touchy-feely", combined with colleges trying to make their school
More like a resort to attract business, combined with college OPERATING MORE LIKE A BUSINESS.

The fewer and fewer upper tier institutions with difficult study disciplines are waning in comparison to all lower tier schools (factories). Exclusive of military academies.

For many, it simply means that they simply showed enough to
complete the course work (or simply copied someone else's without being caught) and the check cleared.

All you gotta do is talk to the younger aviators to prove this.

Even the pilots that attended somewhere like ERAU through the 70's, 80's, and early 90's are saddened by the LACK of quality in the program NOW as compared to then. As well as the lack in quality of the graduates being turned out.

Late 2013, early 2014 UAL dropped the requirement. However, spring 2014 they had yet to hire anyone without it, that's STRAIGHT from the system chief. That's changed.

I know for a FACT, a few have been hired without it. And it DOESNT need to be said, connections and resume items OUTSIDE of flying are what helped them. "It is what it is....."

^^^THIS!!!^^^

No value? Nothing has value unless society assigns it a value. Currently college graduates earn almost $18,000 more a year than high school graduates. I would say that's more than no value.

Yeah, and the guy I flew with a few months ago, had $200K in college loans at 14% interest. His first $1.5 million in career earning are needed to pay that off. He would have been better off working for Taco Bell, and not going at all.

Also, that $18K figure is people who found jobs with a college degree. Add in people who couldn't find a job, and their career earnings are no more than a HS grad.

Did pay for his education on a credit card? Most student loans are well below 14%. In fact, most government subsidized loans are in the neighborhood of 3-4%. If you got a private loan for a place like ATP, that loan is still down near 6%. If you take $200k from a loan shark, then I feel no sympathy for you. I know LOTS of people who went to great schools and left with little to no debt.

Ivory Tower is a documentary done in 2014 questioning the value of a degree today. Especially eye opening for me was the segment on the university of Arizona. Getting my undergrad degree was absolutely nothing like that. I too question the validity of some degrees today.

Faber College's motto was "all learning is good." The U of A segment had no learning going on. "Mr Blutarski, 0.0" might've been replaced by "Mr Blutarski 4.0" which would've really messed up one of the most quotable quotes of Animal House.

A significant part of getting a degree is about personal growth and developing independence. Remove those, lighten the academic load, increase the debt and what do you have?

It was a government loan, he had that low rate until he defaulted, then it jumped to 14%. That's the government for ya....

Delta will not hold that against you in any way. What they don't like is someone who took 6 years to get through school with no real reason.

Yeah, it's easy to explain that once you get to the panel, it's getting there that is the hard part. Delta doesn't hold your past against you in the panel, as long as you have learned, and changed from your mistakes. However, your past comes back to haunt you in the initial screening process, if you are not competitive.

And shorter/more concise way to say EXACTLY what I was getting at.

And the point still stands. Not till one gets a chance to explain that OUTSIDE the boxes/fields on an app does it matter.

I like how Delta Air Lines snubs a snooty nose at guys like me who took decades to get a degree and they're suspicious of that by "not wanting to take the initiative" and finish or some other horse pocky answer. Quite the opposite in fact. I am going to finish my degree debt free online with the same piece of paper and flight times one going to a brick and mortar school has with 100k in debt. I know it's Delta's way and that's fine. But they're missing out on some class clowns. :)

And BTW i'm testing out of pretty much all of my degree. When finished, it'll be fully accredited and cost less than $10,000. Guess what Delta. That's gumption. That's smart. My favorite irony are the ones with Economics and Finance degrees that are 100k in debt. Didn't you learn anything?

I find it comical that these crusty delta captains harp so much fishing for the pick of the litter from state, Ivy League or top engineering, technical universities.

The real question is why someone with such credentials want to waste all that time, money and effort just to fly airplanes.

I find that kind of idiotic.

Personally I have flown with really smart educated folks in my career that can't fly themselves out of a paper bag. But oh well. To each their own.

I've flown with some really dumb people who are also terrible pilots. I'll take the former though because at least they have some critical thinking skills.

Learflyer, Delta isn't snubbing you at all. You just aren't competitive yet. When you get your debt free degree and your 10k of flying time you'll get hired at DAL! Those silly Econ/Finance majors will already be DAL captains in the 8-10 years it takes you to get there and will be looking at an extra $2-3M in comparable career earnings. Tell us again what is smart? Time value of money and all that.

Degree requirement
 

Thanks for your concern. That earned money you state can be earned at a bunch of different carriers. It's how you live your life that matters. Stay married, live below your means, and easy (or don't have any) on the kids. See you on the guard freq!

The grass is always greener, isn't it? Although not Ivy League, I do have an engineering degree and am a licensed Professional Engineer, among other qualifications that make me very marketable in engineering. I absolutely hate the 'office' life, at least on a full time basis. While I am grateful I have a lucrative option to fall back on, I much rather prefer spending the next 17 years in the cockpit. Engineering isn't all it's cracked up to be. It completely consumed my life. Flying is actually enjoyable.

While having a degree may not make someone a good or bad pilot. it is an easy discriminator. Think if you were picking the candidates why wouldn't you pick the guy that went to test pilot school, has 4.0 gpas from all the Ivy League schools, and has 6k TPIC to go to the interview. Then from there determine if he/she is like Jimmy Buffet or Ghengis Khan.

For those that think "it's unfair" that they don't have that discriminator or that their degree isn't valued as much need to get over it or don't.

You're right. We should hire someone like you.:rolleyes:

When Delta runs out of applicants with 4 year degrees they may then change their requirements.









Of course they could also chose to find applicants with 4 year degrees and train them up ab initio style.

I ventured out a little bit during the regionals in preparation of leaving the airline industry for greener pastures in business. I learned a couple of things.

Our experience as airline pilots translated to just about nothing in the business world. A business degree was just a starter, they want experience. And to them we no experience. So we go in the have a degree but no experience pile, i.e., start from the bottom.

You kind of have to parlay this experience into something that would benefit directly from this airline experience. Or build an income stream on the side.

Here's a question CT since you seem to know a little bit more about this then most, is there ever a point where you have too much flight time and it becomes a detractor?

And if you worked full time out of HS to pay for flying lessons and then working as a CFI while doing say, Liberty University online the entire time, how is that viewed? I hear their commercials all of the time now for online courses and wonder if that's the direction we are headed given Big College has gotten out of control thanks to Big Government Students Loans. I like the idea of having some quality control in learning and online courses seems to offer that more uniformly then random GTAs and students for life professors. Disclaimer, there are a lot of stupid majors now offered in college, the real majors with job potential are still very hard like engineering, accounting... and that's it.

The other problem with a degree, is that as the market changes you are stuck with what you have. I have a degree in mechanical engineering, but I wish I had a degree in computer engineering. It would be way more useful for my business. I had no debt when I got out of college, but for some stuck in a dead end major that is worthless, with six figures of debt, it is just outrageous.

We are spoiled in the pilot profession that any degree is qualifying, so for us it isn't an issue. Imagine the outcry if Delta started requiring an aerospace engineering degree to get hired, or to retain employment like they did with some managers.

Very well put.

Also, DL doesn't crap can your application if you took a while longer to get your degree- it's just scored a tad lower. You'll get your shot!

The SSP is winding down (0 names being sent for May from what I'm hearing) and there are dwindling CPZ flows as well. Lots more opportunities are coming for the "normal" off the street folks.