Airline Pilot Central Forums - SWA AAI continued

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You are so worried about the former AT capt.

What about the SWA FO who WAS an AT capt, or a Capt at another B level airline? Why don't your care about that guy's SWA upgrade? He will have hundreds of younger dudes put ahead of him who will NEVER retire in his career.

How is it that you are missing this most important part of the equation over and over an over again? Age demographics ARE THE issue. To paraphrase, "It's the Demographics Dummy!" The rest of your argument doesn't even register with SWA FO's if you pretend it doesn't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brakes Set (Post 1877306)

I believe my post was from your earlier statement and quote in regards to the Process Agreement. You referenced the paragraph on page 3 SEC II (c).

A question was asked by a DAL F/O specifically about that paragraph and what the paragraph actually meant. The Answer was it means a vote for us and we have spelled out it's a vote for them.

Later in the same phone call - A HOU F/O asked a direct question about the rumors on whether the AAI pilots get to vote on (KEY) "whatever is negotiated", he states he understands that SWA pilots do and ask if the AAI pilots "have the same clause in their, in their contract or their By-laws" and do they have to put it out to a "MEMBERSHIP" vote.

YOUR NC leader - stated they actually agreed to that in the Process Agreement and was interrupted by the same pilot with a follow up -

asking if you all had to "worry about a couple negotiators or real senior people making decisions necessarily, kinda like what happened to the Frontier guys, they didn't get to vote....."
YOUR NC leader answered with that if you come to a negotiated deal -" both sides get to vote and how everyone had in depth discussions about that issue."

I did not do the word for word on all the above. I left out the stutters and "um's".

Not sure if you still have access to that recording on your SWAPA web site - go back if you like. I have the exact quotes.

The PA also states in SEC II (c) (iii) that SWAPA and ALPA agree to submit a negotiated deal to their memberships for ratification.

Everyone signed that Process agreement. ALPA put out an Executive Summary hours later. It said the pilots will get to vote on a negotiated deal.

How much clearer must I be for you to admit that what I say is FACTUAL.

Now, as far as what a few individuals did ie; the ATN ALPA MEC and did to not follow what was agreed to - not what is being debated here.

That phone call was over 1 hour and 40 minutes. It was the day after the Process agreement was signed by everyone. I know exactly what was asked and exactly how it was answered.

Where you one of those CA's or F/O's that asked a question and did you listen to the entire event?

I am sure you are aware of the lawsuit about several things but the MEC preventing a vote being one of them.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. Are you attempting to convince me that the AirTran MEC didn't prevent a vote on TA1?

Do you think Gary Kelly wanted a vote to take place? Don't you think that if SWA had the ability to compel a vote they would have litigated the matter? He did express disappointment but never eluded that the MEC did not have the ability to prevent a vote.

“The Southwest pilot union had unanimously approved the deal to send it out for a vote. I was disappointed last week that the ALPA MEC chose not to send it out, in effect rejected that deal." Gary Kelly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine (Post 1877462)

Look. I have answered a few of your questions with facts. We began with you flat out talking about some AAI CA who was the number 1 guy in PHX and how he was not going to upgrade, etc....

Very Simple. I made a phone call. They verified, the first 20 ! were all WN pilots.

You spew something else. I show you the fact and you go off spewing ....nothing really, just phrases and words but don't really say anything specific. I used specifics, detailed. You just spew that I am wrong.

Now it is about 1 FO who was and AAI CA . This thread is about a pilot group. I mentioned all of the groups in my responses with facts. The same FACTS from your UNION. VERY SPECIFIC. .....and your response is again.....nothing.

Please, again - don't respond to this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoelu (Post 1877469)

1. No, Shoelu. Quite the opposite. You and I both know what happened. The ATN MEC prevented the AAI pilots from a vote. It is being argued in court right now if that was legal for them to do.

2. I am absolutely convinced that SWA wanted a negotiated deal to be put
out for a decision to be made by the pilot group and not a few ie; MEC.
I listened to that discussion. It is very clear and stated many times with different callers. What it meant if
the AAI pilots did not reach a negotiated deal and tried the arbitration. Threat of losing their careers.

3. It was agreed by all that the pilot groups of both airlines were to be allowed to vote on a NEGOTIATED DEAL
It was spelled out in detail in the Process Agreement.
It was talked about 2 times during the SWAPA phone call with the SWAPA MC.

4. My other point was that SWA and SWAPA had an agreement that if the
AAI pilots forced it, by not accepting a negotiated deal, to arbitration.
AirTran pilots and the arbitrated list would never be implemented.

This was also discussed several times during the SWAPA phone call with the SWAPA MC.
To be fair, it was stated by a couple of the ALPA MC members and disputed by a few.
It is also discussed in other legal documents in the environment of depositions with ALPA MC members
and SWA upper management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brakes Set (Post 1877419)

You post to tell me you don't bother to read my post.

Your only contribution is to try and identify me? You just stated your not interested in my post - why the interest in something so personal about me?
Read my post and you can learn my back ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 1877337)

One question: Who do you fly for and what's your employment history?

Why the interest in 'something so personal to you'? Because I want to understand why you're so freaking obsessed with this subject. I can quote multiple previous posts of yours where you strongly imply that you have never worked for either airline. I don't believe that, but I want you to state your exact background so everyone can try to understand your obsession with this matter.

As far as the subject matter that you're dredging up, I believe in letting wounds heal. It's done. Rear view mirror.

Shoelu,

I also think it is clear by what Gary Kelly stated by his disappointment.

I think Gary Kelly understood what agreements were made in the Process Agreement with ALPA and ATN MEC/MC.
The ATN MEC did not follow the deal they shook hands on and signed. That is why I think Gary Kelly was so mad. I don't really blame him for that.

I think he had been actually doing the AAI guys a favor in those July meetings. He was going over the History of what SWA does to airlines and their pilots when they buy them. He was very specific. He and several other upper SWA mgt. folks were doing them a favor by showing them what was behind the curtain of arbitration. He did not have to do that. He could have just let them run with the arbitration and those guys and gals would probably be on the bottom of all the seniority list in the industry.

I think it is just another example of pilots thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. Time and time again, we have our asses handed to us by business men.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 1877486)

No, that's not what I wrote - I stated that I hadn't read all of the multiple THREADS. I read quite a few posts from you after seeing the FOURTH thread in less than a week from you on the same subject. I've now reviewed every single post of yours that comes up from a search. Almost all of them are about Southwest/AirTran.

NONE OF YOUR POSTS STATES YOUR BACKGROUND. NONE. YOU TALK OF BOTH SOUTHWEST AND AIRTRAN PILOTS IN A MANNER IMPLYING THAT YOU ARE NOT SOUTHWEST NOR FORMER AIRTRAN.

Now, I've read all of your posts that turn up in search. Please answer my question. Again:

Why the interest in 'something so personal to you'? Because I want to understand why you're so freaking obsessed with this subject. I can quote multiple previous posts of yours where you strongly imply that you have never worked for either airline. I don't believe that, but I want you to state your exact background so everyone can try to understand your obsession with this matter.

As far as the subject matter that you're dredging up, I believe in letting wounds heal. It's done. Rear view mirror.

Sir, first of all you don't speak for everyone. 2. My identity is not a requirement. 3. My motivation was stated in my previous post.

Briefly. I have been an avid reader of this forum for over 10 years. I never posted. I then discovered a couple of years ago (my simple mind and age) you must join to post when I wanted to respond to something. For all I know, that post is probably still available. I do have friends who worked for both airlines. I saw how a couple of the AAI posters have been ganged up or dog piled on this site. I have been privy to a lot of information. When your in the industry you hear it everywhere. The JS, the hotel van, the hotel bar, the lobby at the soccer game with your kids or grand kids and it is the same over and over from the SWA side.
I stated earlier what the straw was for me personally. It is time to put out facts to hopefully educate the ones who are sincerely interested. Maybe then, the next time a SWA F/A or SWA pilot running off with the inaccurate information somewhere - someone will ask them about it. Maybe, which I doubt seriously, some will become aware and change their tune.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 1877486)

So Andy, what do you have to contribute to this thread? Did you have an opinion on the deal between SWA and AAI?

Out of curiosity , I went back to see if all of my post are available over the years.

My first post was about a friend who was insulted by someone on the forum. I actually knew the insulted. That post was Oct - 2010

I made a couple after that in 2010. One on a thread about pay for training. And another about cold weather and deice.

A couple in 2012.

And I just started these on SWA and AAI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brakes Set (Post 1877509)

1. No sh!t, Sherlock. Now, apply the same to yourself. You're being a troll by starting multiple threads covering the same subject. That's a forum foul and I'm surprised that the mods haven't stepped in and quashed this garbage yet.

2) I didn't ask for your identity. I asked who your employer is. Why? I'm trying to determine if you're simply JetBlue captain crazy or Germanwings fo crazy. I think you're an AirTran pilot (notice the 2010 join date) who has another ID on this board that's ~10 years old where it's obvious that you're former AirTran. You created this ID due to your frustration with the acquisition. That makes you only JetBlue crazy. IF you've never flown for either Southwest or AirTran, you, sir, are Germanwings crazy.

3) Your 'motivation' is a façade to reopen the subject to denigrate Southwest employees. That's become very transparent in your posts.

I love your feinting ignorance in the registration requirement in order to post. No, you have posted in painful detail many aspects of the SLI so you're not going to be able to pull off being too stupid to know that you have to register to post here. Not at all believable.

No, pilots don't hear about this over and over and over again unless they fly for Southwest. So I can only conclude that you're former AirTran who wants to make people believe otherwise. Newsflash: very few people care about this anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brakes Set (Post 1877516)

So Andy, what do you have to contribute to this thread? Did you have an opinion on the deal between SWA and AAI?

The greatest contribution that I could possibly make is to get you to stop creating new threads daily on the same worn out subject. I will almost certainly fail.

My opinion is that we are freaking pawns in the airline business and rehashing perceived 'injustices' from acquisitions helps no one.
As far as the Southwest/AirTran acquisition, I think that the AirTran pilots benefitted most from the acquisition. I am willing (unlike you) to state that my employer is United.

This post succinctly describes the acquisition:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine (Post 1877017)

Brakes, get it through your head, no one at SWA had an application in with AT. Why?

Life's not fair, and the airline industry definitely isn't fair.

Bottom line: if you want to continue making an *** of yourself, have a nut. Create a new thread daily on the subject. With each new thread, the views and responses will continue to decline. Until you're posting to yourself.