you're not understanding what i said. I said if it exceeds their ability to staff the airline (new hires, upgrades) and all the deliveries we have on order. They don't care about turnover. There is a difference.

I hate to get into the middle if this, but I am new to this site and have an interview with spirit. After reading this forum I'm not so sure I even want to go.
I have been a regional Capt for 3 yes seems the pay scale the company has proposed is no better than where I am.
Ya you have brand new aircraft but why come to spirit to be responsible for more people and be paid so poorly.....Thoughts

I guess the good thing about this this thread is that managament reads APC and maybe they'll see how insulting their proposal was.

Whether or not they care is another thing


Spirit may currently appear to be a dead end job (subject to change!)but it's less of a dead end job than a regional. You have no decision to make
Until you are offered a class. Worst case, you get an AIRBUS type and see what our next contract brings. Nobody says you can't leave

Its a personal choice that you will certainly have to weigh the pros and cons of where you are and where you want to be at any point in time, most likely by retirement. Many of the posts on this and other threads give good insight, so do your due diligence and read through them (albeit with a grain of salt). Yes we are in section 6 negotiations, and yes at the current time we are much lower than our peers in many areas. However, the current contract was signed over 5 years ago, resulting in leap frogging of peer groups with their own CBA. One day your at the bottom, the next at or near the top, etc. One thing I often tell myself is even with all the crap we may put up with, the worst day here is still better than the best day at my former regional. "At the end of the day" each regional is still a sub-contractor regardless if your a wholly owned. We have seen where regionals can be bought/sold/ at a whim. Whipsawing IMHO will always be prevalent and a factor at each regional airline. Although times are good now with improvements to pay and other QOL advancements to regionals in this cycle, what will happen during the next economic downturn is anyone's guess. Again, when the music inevitably stops, will you have that proverbial chair......

Great post. I agree with everything you said.

I didn't post my comment with the intention of making this a Jetblue vs spirit argument. We have our own problems that we're trying to fix with our first ALPA contract. I only pointed that out because Smails and Rainbows came on here attacking the OP and telling him to "just quit". That's such a juvenile argument I felt I had to speak up.

Precisely. The sky isn't falling. It's frustrating but at least you'll come into this eyes wide open. We have great pilots and it's mostly a good place to work. worst case scenario you get the type and quit for a better job.

*they're

You will find any way you can to justify your industry leading concessionary wages won't you?

4 days off between 6 day work blocks. Pretty sweet brah. And yes, your rates do take away the negotiating power legacy pilots have. Are they helping?

Hey guys, can you tell me exactly how much those regional FOs make?...... Just curious.

Don't forget that we have free smiles here guys!

A 220 passenger, A321 is a stepping stone now? That's a new low. You do realize you are actually taking passengers from higher paying legacy jobs right, same jobs you keep your apps updated for?
Now if you weren't doing it at such a discount it wouldn't be an issue (the argument being it's actually a legit business model rather than than depending on cheap labor that doesn't realize their own value subsidizing growth and maintaining profit margins).

First year is in the 40's now. 2nd year 43 1st year capt (3rd yr seniority) $80..
Most Rjs carrying 70 pax

Ya and we had those crappy pins years ago to..."Busted" for doing something good...

I think "but it's better than my regional" is exactly what management wants to hear. keeping a nice stream of applications whilst paying rock bottom wages.

Trolling DAL troll is trolling! So appreciative to have your insight here. Thanks!

Oh great another double breasted sky God chimes in to whine about how Spirit, Emirates, regionals etc are taking your jobs away.

My question is simple to you. How do you come on here and troll when your E190 rates max at $139 an hour in THE LEFT SEAT? You're taking away E190 pax from JetBlue with those bottom feeding rates!!

You'll probably read this after you get done charging your golf cart after telling everyone in Peachtree City you're a Delta pilot. Until then $uck it

That will change soon my friend. They will soon be better than your airbus rates.

Don't hold your breath buddy. It'll be a while before Richard hands over $50/HR + to you guys. He has the cheapest 190 pilots in the industry now. Plus he needs to make the point that you can't vote down a contract and automatically get one better. It won't be the gift you make it out to be to save face here. By that time our Airbus rates will be just fine.

Until then- make sure you wear your hat.

Someone has to balance out the "amazing QOL" guys that come on here all the time and fight against fighting for a decent wage. You guys never have good arguments; just filler. again, another Spirit pilot with no insight whatsoever.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

That Airbus SJS blinds a lot of guys to the harm they do to the entire profession. every load of passengers who elect the ULCCs means fewer pilots at the legacies. Some people just don't get the connection to their own detriment.

Why not just shoot yourself in the foot and get it over with?

You make it sound like you're not a pilot unless you're a legacy pilot. Yeah, we are taking your passengers. We are your competitors! Regional pilots flying YOUR passengers at crap rates is another story.

Make sure you fly that E190 for 139 and $95 an hour! Hypocrite

The hole in your logic is Spirit isn't flying in regional markets. You are competing head to head with the legacies while undercutting pilot wages/benefits.

Do the math. Again, every plane load you fly in a major market is one less plane load for the Legacies. And YOU want to "upgrade" to a legacy flight deck?

"Oh, I have another foot. Let's shoot that one, too!"

Nearly 6 pages of this thread and I haven't actually yet understood what this thread is about ...


Although, as usual it's turned into a Delta versus the world thread

Man hatters gonna hate , to each his own

What are you talking about? Who said I want to go to a legacy? You're assuming that we all want to leave. Also, what would you have said 5 years ago about our contract? I bet any US Air guy would have given a lot for it! Inevitably we will get a good contract and be back where we need to be with pay and benefits. And inevitably we will keep expanding from major hub to major hub. And, god willing, we keep taking passengers from you guys well into the future. You see, my friend, I work for Spirit and I hope to keep working here for a very long time. We are your COMPETITORS! Get it?

Yeah, I get it. Glad you're proud of the fact that you're stabbing your ALPA brothers in the back by flying for substandard pay/benefits.

Good for you. Looks like Spirit found a low self-esteem sucker.

I didn't say that at all. I told him to come here and see what the next contract brings. If it's higher pay and a good retirement, he's already here. If it is a long drawn out process or inferior, leave. Pretty simple.

Also, you're a fool if you think pilot labor costs have that much of an impact on our margins, or any airlines for that matter

Typical RLA negotiations go 2 to 5 years past their amendable date. Factor that in....

We are in negotiations, genius. Should we all just quit and hope that the legacy gods will shine their light down upon us?

Again, typical RLA pilot negotiations drag out 2 to 5 years past their amendable date. Do you really think Spirit has any intention of giving up poor pilot pay rates anytime soon?

The key word in RLA contracts is "amendable". There is never a termination date. You could be working for your current rates for years to come.

And "retro" pay? Perhaps a "signing bonus." But full retro is a pipe dream.

Well, let's burn this place down and hand the keys to you guys! All hope is lost!

Listen, buddy. We're doing our best to get a leading contract. I'm sure we will get a much better deal soon enough. I'm confident that our guys won't ratify anything less. In the meantime, our job is to keep doing our job. Flying from major city to major city is what we do here. We aren't flying passengers on an rj that bought tickets on your website for **** wages. That is where your gripe needs to be.

Packrat I believe you fly for Alaska? If so you guys didnt exactly bang it out of the park with your recent contract. Talk about undercutting, Wow.
At least our contract is 5 years old what's your excuse?

Hahahahahha are you serious? I thought he flew for Delta?

ALASKA? The nerve.............

Are you serious? He said we couldn't have 190's unless we voted TA1 in. Guess what, we have 190's. TA2 is going to make him pay for them. It will be good for the company and good for us. The pilots actually have the leverage right now, too bad you guys can't see that. Whats happening to the regionals right now will creep into the LCC's as far as attrition goes.

And how much negotiating capital should they have negotiated for a CRJ900/EMB rates back in 2012 for an airplane they didn't have on property? You need to go to bizness skool.

I bet if you extrapolate the wages and apply them to a 220 seat A321, you are flying for ****ty wages and the tickets were sold on website.

Which is why we are not going to settle for a lousy deal.

Really? You are going to bring up rates for an aircraft that isn't on property yet? TA2 my friend, have some patience. Keep updating your app, maybe you will get your call. I can't wait to come back to this thread when TA comes and it tops out at $200 bucks an hour, like the 717 (+15% DC +23% PS). But yeah, I don't get 4 days off between 6 days work blocks.

Spirit Airlines | AirlinePilotCentral.com

Good, there you go. Don't sell yourself short. That is the point of all my posts/trolling. Too many guys think its awesome cause Spirit is better than a regional. You are flying 220 seat airplanes with a 20% profit margin. Time to get paid!

This!

I come to work to get paid!

Time to pay up.

Also, let's not forget it was the SPIRIT pilots who last went on strike. I'm pretty confident we have a group here that is willing to fight if need be.

++++++1! Straight up!

Let's not make this a Delta vs Spirit vs Alaska vs JB..

Full circle from the OP, we need leverage! Having a problem filling classes might get us some.. Until then, it may be a long fight.. Hopefully a unified pilot group type fight!

This needs to start right now.

I agree with these previous posters. You guys fly mainline jets on mainline routes. You NEED mainline pay. Period.