Spirit, the multi million dollar mistake!
 

I'd like to know why guys/gals are coming here? Is it because you get to fly a shiny new Airbus? Or, is it just an escape from your regional until someone better calls? Honest question!

Here are the facts-
One of the lowest paid pilots flying the most amount of pax allowed in a bus.

Management wants to take work rules and pay less than standard wages. They don't value us! A good TA is years away!!

Our QOL is no better than JB, Alaska or the Legacies. Don't drink the kool aid, it's not awesome like everyone thinks. Having to game the system to make a decent wage gets old!

Upgrades will stop! We are halfway through our orders.

Below average retirement! We give up hundreds of thousands of dollars with no DC!

Short disability and long term stink!

All this for the most profitable airline in the US! Welcome aboard!

Spirit
 

Short disability stinks because there is no short disability. For the first 90 days you are out you are completely on your own. Better have some sick time or vacation time saved up or its time to eat in to your savings.

Why did you come here?

Let us know what the Chief Pilot says when you hand in your resignation tomorrow morning.

Same reasons you probably did. Hopes of being a part of and building something awesome! Its clear this management team doesn't want that!

That's what your counter point is? If you don't like it then quit? You know what industry you work in right?

Yeah, you tell em! OP's question seems legit!

Serious question...is this your first airline gig? You do realize it's management's job to low ball us, right? We're five months past our amendable date, save the sky is falling threads for a couple years from now.

Wow, you're in for a rude awakening then. Great name though.. Go have a Fresca!

Bingo bango exactamundo! I wonder if this guy with 2 posts knows that this contract we are living under, the same one that has been amendable for ALL of five months is the same one that was passed when this company was private, had about 300-400 pilots and was signed when most of the other carriers were in bankruptcy. Put on your big boy pants and quit whining about how awful and horrible the job conditions you're working under are, if it's so glaringly bad, then quit. Ain't no one forcing you to work in this gawd awful place, acting like you shoveling coal 12-15 hours straight, working on a chain gang, gimme a break, you're sounding like a self-entitled mama's boy.

Guess you missed the point. You missed a spot on Bendo's Mercedes! Now go pick up some straight pay open time at your 72$!

Well, bless your heart...

If you only read one thread on here you might think this is a unique situation. It's the same line that is spewed on the SW, DAL and every other airline thread on here. So either all airlines suck or there are a lot of whiners on here.

Fly a shiny new Airbus and then get a sweet Airbus systems name for APC forums!

Are you kidding me with this crap? You all sound like a bunch of 5th graders.
We are all professional airline pilots perhaps we should start acting like it.
Ptuoverheat is right, where we currently are pay wise is no higher than regional level pay for first officers, and as far as captain pay its the lowest next to frontier.
Instead of fighting together for our future you are all bashing one another.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is an open forum and we are free to air our dirty laundry and frustration regarding our current status?
Whether we have 3 posts or 300 doesn't apply here, what does apply here is we are what is keeping this airline moving.
Without the pilot group moving metal management doesn't have any beans to count.
Aren't we owed an honest wage and a good contract?
Have we all forgotten that WE the pilot group bailed this "management"out in July because they have been trying to run this airline in a skeleton minimum?!

Anybody else think ptuoverheat and needbrfbag are the same people?

The Airbus isn't the only aircraft with a PTU. But you probably figured that out already.

Yep! Like a cow in front of a mirror.

Funny peeps.. This is entertaining... Almost as entertaining as you believing we will have a TA soon..

Some compelling arguments you and Smails have brought forth. You guys are good. Nothing needs to be changed.

Here's a really compelling argument though, your Airbus rates are dragging down the rest of the industry. That sure is funny.

We ain't saying a new contract with increased pay rates and retirement while holding on to our QOL rules isn't what we want. I'm saying their going about it the wrong way. And how do you mean we're dragging down the rest of the industry? How about the other carriers who don't have four days off between pairings, or transition conflict, or line bidding or sweet vacation rules, or nice inexpensive insurance? Huh? Are they dragging down the industry? How about those pilot groups who have given up scope, allowed code sharing, a and b plans, etc, they dragging down the industry? Please, you gotta be a special kind of stupid if you think the legacies are sitting looking across the negotiating table quoting Spirit's rates to its pilots. :rolleyes:

No but you were brought in to our peer set at JetBlue on our last "contract" and directly brought down our rates because of that. That is a fact. But that is fine as long as you can recognize that that is a problem for everyone. The original poster, your colleague, brought up some good points about things that needed to be fixed. He was met by what I assume are fellow Spirit pilots with comments of, "why don't you quit". That's bogus.

Also your 4 days off between pairings is a red herring in my opinion. I'm sick of hearing about it because it leaves out anyone that doesn't want to fly 3-4-5 and I think you have 6 day trips.

You guys don't pay any attention to that Ptu guy or that nerf person!

Ben, Jyri and I were just talking about how awesome we're going to make your contract. James called from Boise (first class was full, so we couldn't fly him in) and we ran through how fantastic this group of guys and gals is!! We have come up with some super things for you guys - just to show how much you're worth. The only problem is......... It might take a couple of years to "finesse"....

James says that you guys don't mind and seeing that we don't see any tangible evidence of an angry group, hell we'll just keep on printing those Benjamins!!

High five guys!

++++1! Spot on!

Spirit, the multi million dollar mistake!
 

Oh here we go....blue juicers like you give other JB guys a bad rep. So you say our rates dragged down yours...fine...how do you think your stellar FAR 117 duty rules, your "health insurance" and PBS are going to affect our goals? Oh, I forgot to mention your amazing reserve rules too.

Go get 'em Judge!

Spirit rocks!!

Free smiles guys!

High fives for all! Double rainbow and Judge miss the point. Yes we bring the industry down! Fact #2, we have no leverage! There is no reason for BiminiBendo to give us a TA... Why are guys leaving here for blue? Why do guys want to be here? When the hiring well dries up, then we will have leverage. We've already lowered our pic mins...

Spirit pilot vs spirit pilot and Alpa (spirit) pilot vs alpa (JetBlue) pilot. Really productive guys.

Btw the OP has some real points and perhaps getting out some truths might help inform a few candidates that don't have all sides of the story. Anything that puts a choke on recruiting only helps the cause. Anyone that takes it personally needs to get a grip. I never understood why some pilots get insulted when others bag on their airline or why anyone would bag on another's. It's a name on a paycheck and who you work for doesn't define you as pilot. If you are a union pilot you are good in my book. I have to assume we are all trying to improve and raise the bar. If not, then get out of way.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I'm not on here saying there's nothing wrong with my company and vilifying guys that are. You are doing that.

With the Feds increasing the interest rate by 2% next year and spirit management only wants to increase first year FO pay by less than a dollar, strip all transition conflict language you will be paid less next year and every year after that, if you come here. Getting a new contract here is going to be like captain upgrades--a lot longer than the 2.5 years recruiters are claiming. Read and heed, you have been warned.

Let me guess... it all went downhill your first day of basic Indic during lunch break.:cool:

I came for the free ALPA pin.

What's a a PTU?

Mowhahahahahah

The OP is right! Why the heck would anyone come here now!? A year ago the bet was upgrade vs low pay. One could reasonably expect to upgrade and offset the pathetic wages. And if you were lucky enough to be under 1000 seniority you'd be sitting pretty when the company grew to 3,000 to 4,000 in a few years.
But anyone coming today will not see an upgrade. You'd have to bet on additional planes which have not been announced or even officially hinted at!
So what? You're gonna leave you $95 rj job to come here for $39? Or some of these corporate and cargo guys making north of 100 are gonna sit in the right seat and make $15,000 there first year?
Don't flame the OP. He has some real questions that we need to seriously consider. Why would ANYONE except a CFI come here. And if no one comes then that has a direct impact on us personally. The NC has to keep this in mind. It's not just the crap captain wages, but guys coming here have to make a living in the right seat for years to come!!!

The OP is disgruntled and quite possibly a troll but he is correct. The numbers aren't in the favor of new hires moving forward. The back side of the growth chart is very close and they will be looking at quite a while in the right seat. If this deal takes 1-2 years to produce results that will make their situations even worse. The company is still touting a 2.5 year upgrade. Perception is they'll make the money back within 3 years and then some. But remember, that is perception. He is right that one of the few ways we will see a deal sooner than later will be if they aren't filling new hire classes and attrition is exceeding their capacity to staff the airframes and upgrade. Until then they have some of the cheapest bus pilots in the nation.

Why would the company really care if they've got high turn over? Assuming the company can keep pilots long enough to recoup their initial training costs;
1) keeps average wages way down
2) allows them to advertise quick upgrades and 3) keeps the any real culture and solidarity at a minimum.

As long as we pay above RJ Fo or CFI wages the bottom of the barrel will still apply. That's why NC needs to really focus on FO pay too. We need quality guys.

We've got the lowest rates in the industry. It's a fact too. We just came through bankruptcy without a single work rule touched, but that's for another discussion.

The only reason I chime in is to point out that the peer group you use in contract negotiations is NEGOTIATED. The company says "Spirit and Frontier" and ALPA had best say "American and SWA". Eventually you meet in the middle somewhere.

That the ugly house down the block exists and affects your property value may be a fact, but they may scrape it and build one that makes yours look like a POS.

It is all a big cycle that's been going on for years. The difference seems to be the public forums for venting, the age 65 rule having recently stalled so many plans (you were warned not to bet your mortgages on) and the entitled mentality so pervasive in every facet of today's society.

Rant over. Good luck with your contract!

I agree. However, I believe there are a couple of regionals that already pay better than us. Somebody posted that Endeavour is paying around 58K the first year (I'm assuming with some form of bonus)?