There are some good things about NK but none of them come on the 1st or the 15th. I came here to roll the dice. Either our next contract gets us paid the levels we deserve or I'm out. The big 'tree' aren't calling me yet so I figured it'd be easier getting there from an A320 than a Citation if NK doesn't pan out.

Come on now, do you really think the frequent flier on Delta is saying "You know I can fly cheaper on Spirit" have you ever been on a spirit flight? Hop on a DTW-LAS flight on Spirit sometimes and take a look at the type of passenger we carry compared to Delta. Last check, Delta is not having a hard time filling their seats. So I don't believe this "Spirit is stealing passengers from the legacies" Our rates may be low now, but how was US Air, Delta, or United rates compared to Spirit 4-5 years ago? Now, if we voted in low rates compared to everyone else, then I would understand your frustration. I think you should be more concern about why there are brand new CRJ-900 or E-175, in Delta colors than worry about Spirit stealing your passengers.

If I work for Alaska, I would be wondering why there are brand new E-175 in Alaska colors doing routes such as PDX-STL. All being flown by a regional, before coming on here and talking about the pay rates of another airline.

It is pretty hilarious that somebody from Alaska (who has ZERO scope) has the nerve to come on here and lecture Spirit pilots about our pay rates. I agree, our pay rates are abysmal and need to be corrected ASAP. That being said, I'm not sure that an Alaska pilot has the clout to be lecturing us on the damage our pay rates our doing to this industry. GMAFB. Why don't you worry a little less about our pay rates and a little more about the fact that you guys just agreed to a contract that allows unlimited outsourcing of your flying?

Hey Window Seat! I thought you forgot about us. For a second there I thought you might have found something better to do with your life. Good news, you didn't. For those of you who are unfamiliar, let me introduce you to Window Seat. The second that this idiot left his regional job for Delta about a year ago, he has made it his life mission to lecture Spirit pilots about our sh$tty pay rates. Thanks man, you're services on this (or any other Spirit thread) are no longer required. Our pay rates are in desperate need of improvement, and although you appear to think so as well, it doesn't take an idiot to see that.

You sir are a despicable piece of crap for insinuating we are stabbing other pilots in the back. I hope you are the first one shown the door when the furloughs begin, you trip walking out the door and lose your medical for saying stuff like this. Then, when you can't make a living your wife leaves you for a Piggly Wiggly bagger because not only is he better looking than you, he's got a bigger paycheck. Scumbag is too good a word for you.

It's kinda fun reading all the insults going around.

Window Seat probably was a flow to Delta. He was probably turned down by Spirit or someone in his past and can't move forward.
There are some great people at the legacies, even Delta, but I love working at Spirit, and most crews are great. I don't care that I make less than Delta, I do not want to work at Delta. I don't have my app in at Delta and never will. I don't want to be #15000. Can't put my finger on why I hate Delta so much but they just erk me. Again not bashing the crews. Yes I would love higher pay and we deserve it with the profits we have. Don't want to make this Spirit vs Delta etc but Window Seat can suck it. The other guy too, you know if you have been reading this. Anyways have a lovely time reading. Where do you think you're going? Nobody's leaving. Nobody's walking out on this fun, old-fashioned family Christmas. No, no. We're all in this together. This is a full-blown, four-alarm holiday emergency here. We're gonna press on, and we're gonna have the hap, hap, happiest Christmas since Bing Crosby tap-danced with Danny ducking Kaye. And when Santa squeezes his fat white ass down that chimney tonight, he's gonna find the jolliest bunch of *******s this side of the nuthouse.

FUPM


filler

I agree Packrat made a fool of himself if he works for Alaska, but cmon guys. DELTAS current contract blows ours out of the water in every single regard. The 4-days off means little when you need to pick up a trip in between.

I "like" working here (Chief pilots have been great, great instructors and truly very helpful training/HR Folks) but will have no choice but to try and leave if we don't get a good contract soon. I'd be doing myself and family a huge disservice by staying as an AIRBUS CAPTAIN making $126.00/hr with a paltry retirement.

I go to work to get PAID, I have my fun on off days

FUPM

Mom,
You read way too much into what (like 4 posters out of 12,000 pilots) complain about Delta.

Here's some news for you..... I like working at Delta and would even if I were paid what Spirt pilots are paid. I'd probably feel taken advantage of, but would still like almost all of the people I worked with, FA's, Chief pilots, training instructors, etc.

When we get the profit sharing in Feb, I will not only like the company, but I will feel much more valued and appreciative of the job that our mgmt has done in rebuilding the brand.

As to not wanting to feel like pilot #12,000, since the airline has so many different "fleets/bases", it's like several different airlines all working in close proximity with a common SOP.

Bottom line, don't let a few blowhards on these threads paint you a picture that causes you to make misinformed decisions.

Mgmt loves your "hate" for Delta because it may cause you to lose focus on your real plight, getting mgmt to recognize your contributions in making them bank, and how to get a little piece of the pie.

After all, won't you help mgmt help NK take on those big, bad, legacies by keeping your costs artificially low. When I see pilots post on here, with glee, about how low NK's labor/casm rates are...... I know that your mgmt lets out just a wee bit smile.

I certainly don't hate Delta but I do loathe individuals like yourself that feel the need to educate Spirit pilots on the size of your W2, or how the airline business works. You are a worker bee, nothing more.

Congrats, you make more money than us, you win?

Lastly, why is it that when we point out your joke of a EMB-190 payrate you combat it with "we are negotiating blah blah blah", yet when we bring up the fact that we are negotiating you disregard us and just continue to berate us?

Hey, I have already won in life whether I make more money or not......

I do not stop until I win....

Not educating y'all on anything other than Mom's blind "hate" for a company/entity that he does not fully understand.

NK pilots are in negotiations and have all my support as they have struck before and are part of ALPA.

I was merely commenting on the 1-3 NK pilots who like to brag about NK's ultra-low casm and display disdain for pilots/companies who have larger W2's.

It must bring a little smile to your mgmt..... that is all.

Merry Christmas Chimpy.

I can respect that :), Merry Christmas to you as well

entertaining isn't it. :D:D

Well since everyone that boards the airplane isn't a frequent flyer, I would say yes, legacy passengers are being enticed by Spirits low fares that are supported by low wages. How else would you explain the growth of Spirit in the Atlanta hub?
Is everyone that boards your flights a first time flyer? If not, where did they come from? You have too many captains on here saying to accept the status quo and accept Spirit for what it is. Get paid.

Until you guys realize that I'm working about 50% less days to get that same 100k you don't have the QOL that you think you do. Thanks for the welcome back :). I guess you have been here the whole time so is it safe to assume this APC is the best thing you have going on? Thats cool, its free, lets you save that cash while enjoying that QOL.

Ok, we get it Window, you make more money. enjoy it, Merry Christmas

That's what businesses do. Good grief, this little whiny snot is acting like we're taking his money. It's guys like that would make one laugh in his face when he gets furloughed.

If you are so worried about what our management does. Why don't you take away all those EJets and CRJ's from the regionals before worrying about what our management does. You have a bigger mess to clean up. How many of those Delta passengers are riding on an RJ that's not flown by mainline Delta pilots? Fix that, then come talk about Spirit stealing your passengers.

BAM! Damn straight.

I'm seeing lots and lots of brand new CRJ and E175 in Delta colors, however Spirit is the one that he has a problem with :rolleyes:

Me too! :D;)

I think you're confused on what that business model is. I'm not bashing it, but I don't think many Spirit pilots understand based on the posts that I see.

The Ryanair model isn't just about a la carte pricing. Low labor cost is another integral part of the ULCC model. Looking at Ryanair pilots, they're all paid 30-40% less in total compensation than their European "legacy" counterparts, and at least 20% less than their LCC peers. It's one of the least desirable air carrier to work for and a place where you get your time in and get out. Attrition is upwards 70/month there (keeping the longevity low). Most employees are considered contract employees to skirt labor laws(including pilots). You pay for your own training, uniforms, no retirement, a mess of a "seniority system", no monthly guarantee (at least initially), FOs are typically 50-90K and CA tops out around 140K.
But hey, I think they're the ONLY european carrier with a minimum 4 days off between work blocks in their contract. Oh, and they're also the most profitable airline in Europe.

This is true of all their labor groups, and that is how they're able to grow to the second largest airline in Europe by passenger count, and 4th largest by fleet.

I think it's misguided for Spirit guys to look up to Ryanair as a business model to be proud of. I'm pretty sure your management team is doing everything they can to copy the success Ryan has had, including in the labor department. The difference I see between other management teams and Spirit is that the former is willing to pay or beat industry average (as long as it's not too much) in good times, Spirit, being true to itself as a ULCC, will never been willing to pay industry minus 20% unless there's a strike and the airline has shut down. And that is the main difference between Ryanair and Spirit. Ryanair pilots are contract employees based in many countries, there's not really a cohesive union whereas pilots in the US are unionized giving you guys at least a seat at the table.

If Spirit workgroups is able to attain industry average across the board for pilots, FAs, mechanics, agents, ground and operations personnel. People stayed and longevity/cost increased. It'll no longer be an ULCC carrier and will soon be replaced by Eastern, Braniff IV, etc.

There's no reason to not enjoy working at Spirit, but understand as a ULCC, fighting for industry average means you'll be striking in 3-5 years, start saving up, and the likely result of the strike will still be below industry average.

Good luck to y'all in negotiations.

I repeal your man card

I wasn't saying I was "proud" of the model per se, I was just making a point it's a good business model.

I also don't think it will be 3-5 years, nor do I feel it will be 20% below IA, but thanks for the vote of confidence, lol

What's with all the monkey, er, Chimp avatars?

Out of respect for once loved "SAABaroowski" :)

I think you guys are missing the point. Spirit pilots are below average pilots and don't even deserve the exorbitant pay that we already lavish upon them. You guys aren't good enough to fly at a legacy, but we love you anyway and that's the point that we'll make to the mediator in 2 years!

Don't forget those free smiles guys!

You Against my better judgment I'll entertain the delta guys in the thread.

Many if not most of us worked for some regional "partner" that flew delta passengers on planes painted in delta colors. Many of us would be delta pilots and not spirit pilots and it's likely spirit wouldn't have pilots at all, but instead it was you, the delta pilot, that were too good to fly the rj. Instead of flying cargo, or flight instructing, or military, and going straight to delta you forced us all to grind it out at a regional "partner" for a decade making peanuts and just hoping to get a call for so much as an interview. While you guys had to figure out how to live with one BMW and a one Chevy instead of two BMWs we were barely eating. A guy can only put his life on hold for so long while waiting for a call that may never come. Some of us are still waiting while we are at spirit but if it never happens we can at least make a living and maybe just maybe put a kid in college if we save our pennies. That was simply not possible while working for the regional "partner" that you, the delta pilot created.

Let's be clear, while many of us believe in the model at spirit we do not to the point that we are willing to subsidize it to make it successful. We will not vote for a contract that does not recognize our worth as professional pilots. How the company makes money behind my door is up to them but the pointy end looks the same as your pointy end and I expect to be compensated the same or better than you, the delta pilot, and will not settle for less. Sure we have a small percentage of white trash with no options in our cockpits that will work for peanuts but they are a small minority and the rest of us just aren't that stupid.

You reference our growth in Atl. We have TWO count them TWO gates. How many does southwest or for that matter did AirTran have? I don't see you bagging on them. That's right they have a legacyesque contract. What about 20 years ago? Not so much. So 20 years ago they sucked but now they're ok? Got it. Why don't you give us a chance to do what needs to be done? And may I remind you that many of us wouldn't even be here if we had flown all of those rjs as delta pilots. You did that.

And if you really want to put an end to spirit get dalpa to convince delta to offer any spirit pilot a seniority number and a class date for the planned 2016 hiring. I'll be there tomorrow and I would bet at least another 600-700 of my spirit brothers. Hell delta gave flow class dates with no interviews to plenty of rj pilots that were actually willing to lower the bar and perpetuate the whipsaw race to the bottom. Those of us not willing to do it were snubbed, and here we are. You can teach most competent pilots to fly any jet at any airline but what you have flowing to delta right now is a bunch of guys that have proved they are willing to work for less and a bunch of "yes men" mil guys.

Some are willing to be ass raped for a promise of something better later. Those guys got flows. Some of us just aren't so we are going to have to earn it the hard way and that's what we are doing here at spirit. No matter how you slice it spirit was an upward move from where we were at. Does that mean we are happy with how things are? Hell no! And we are here to change it the hard way.

Back to the OPs point. If someone comes here they better do it with their eyes open because the pay numbers are real and qol is mostly myth. Qol is ok but not something incredible that doesn't exist elsewhere. I actually hope you don't come here because that only gives us more leverage but if you do you better be willing to fight the good fight and not just be happy it's better than a regional.

Looking at his posts, he spent time at compass, flowed to Delta recently and now is better then all of us. Oh, and gets to lecture us. Hey window, were you even there long enough to vote no on that contract or are you just talking down to us for what your fellow pilots did?

Not even sure why we're feeding that troll. He'll be crying a different tune once he's furloughed. May even try and apply to Spirit.

Technically even though the last Compass flow up is done, there is a flowback provision for Delta furloughees. Theoretically worst case scenario is E170/175 CA at Compass so as long as Compass exists.

Mic drop (walks off stage to a standing ovation)

Another thing I noticed is, we have lots of flights out of DFW and ORD, that over laps AA and UAL. We don't see any United or AA pilots on here saying "You're stealing our passengers." If anything, the UAL and AA pilots are happy with our flights, since it makes their commute easier. Window Seat should go look at the recent Sun Country contract and remember that they operate mostly out of MSP.

Hopefully you are a better investigator than a Captain. None of that is correct but it should be pretty evident where I came from...and how my views haven't changed since I started in this industry 10 years ago. Many of your posters want to bring the regional mindset to a 220 seat Airbus. We are not at Colgan anymore boys.

Picks up previously dropped mike and heads back onstage.

Great logical post.

Ah man, you messed up your one liner...

GD! haha. Autocorrect...mic!!!!