Integrity is not an MEL item
04-20-2016 | 06:33 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 30
From: Volleyball Player
Some people are scum, but the apps are partially to blame.
"Have you ever failed a checkride?" Okay, if a 141 stagecheck is a checkride then...
"Have you ever been a check airmen?" Is a 141 stagecheck instructor a check airmen? Is there a difference between a check airman and a check airmen or is one just plural? Lawyers?
I'd say certain stagechecks count as checkrides and not others. Yet a stagecheck instructor is not a check airmen because check airmen and check instructor are defined in 121 and 141 respectively. A check instructor is an airman though, so maybe he is a check airmen. Really, I don't know. That's just my **** legal opinion. Is someone with a different legal opinion a liar? I knew a regional FO who was hired at Delta after scoring himself as a check airmen on airlineapps.com because he gave stagechecks at 141 school. But a clerk did read over it and ask him about it during the interview so he's in. He got the seniority number years before his buds because of, IMHO, his ignorance, Delta's error, and the way airlines score apps almost entirely on structured data with very limited human oversight.
"Have you ever failed a checkride?" Okay, if a 141 stagecheck is a checkride then...
"Have you ever been a check airmen?" Is a 141 stagecheck instructor a check airmen? Is there a difference between a check airman and a check airmen or is one just plural? Lawyers?
I'd say certain stagechecks count as checkrides and not others. Yet a stagecheck instructor is not a check airmen because check airmen and check instructor are defined in 121 and 141 respectively. A check instructor is an airman though, so maybe he is a check airmen. Really, I don't know. That's just my **** legal opinion. Is someone with a different legal opinion a liar? I knew a regional FO who was hired at Delta after scoring himself as a check airmen on airlineapps.com because he gave stagechecks at 141 school. But a clerk did read over it and ask him about it during the interview so he's in. He got the seniority number years before his buds because of, IMHO, his ignorance, Delta's error, and the way airlines score apps almost entirely on structured data with very limited human oversight.
A practical test is a practical test.
A checkride is anything you want to call a checkride, such as certificate or rating, 135 currency, etc. Traditionally, for the application process, this has been usually limited to checks for certificates or ratings. In the 141 world, a "stage check" is just another unit on the syllabus and you only get your certificate because you pass the course, not a "checkride", but that's between you and the employer of course on how you want to describe your past.
A 141 Check Instructor is not a Check Airman. You may have duties that meet or exceed those of a Check Airman, but it's not a Check Airman.
04-20-2016 | 06:43 AM
#112
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,618
Likes: 558
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
A stage check is a stage check.
A practical test is a practical test.
A checkride is anything you want to call a checkride, such as certificate or rating, 135 currency, etc. Traditionally, for the application process, this has been usually limited to checks for certificates or ratings. In the 141 world, a "stage check" is just another unit on the syllabus and you only get your certificate because you pass the course, not a "checkride", but that's between you and the employer of course on how you want to describe your past.
A 141 Check Instructor is not a Check Airman. You may have duties that meet or exceed those of a Check Airman, but it's not a Check Airman.
A practical test is a practical test.
A checkride is anything you want to call a checkride, such as certificate or rating, 135 currency, etc. Traditionally, for the application process, this has been usually limited to checks for certificates or ratings. In the 141 world, a "stage check" is just another unit on the syllabus and you only get your certificate because you pass the course, not a "checkride", but that's between you and the employer of course on how you want to describe your past.
A 141 Check Instructor is not a Check Airman. You may have duties that meet or exceed those of a Check Airman, but it's not a Check Airman.
04-20-2016 | 10:10 AM
#114
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Some people are scum, but the apps are partially to blame.
"Have you ever failed a checkride?" Okay, if a 141 stagecheck is a checkride then...
"Have you ever been a check airmen?" Is a 141 stagecheck instructor a check airmen? Is there a difference between a check airman and a check airmen or is one just plural? Lawyers?
I'd say certain stagechecks count as checkrides and not others. Yet a stagecheck instructor is not a check airmen because check airmen and check instructor are defined in 121 and 141 respectively. A check instructor is an airman though, so maybe he is a check airmen. Really, I don't know. That's just my **** legal opinion. Is someone with a different legal opinion a liar? I knew a regional FO who was hired at Delta after scoring himself as a check airmen on airlineapps.com because he gave stagechecks at 141 school. But a clerk did read over it and ask him about it during the interview so he's in. He got the seniority number years before his buds because of, IMHO, his ignorance, Delta's error, and the way airlines score apps almost entirely on structured data with very limited human oversight.
When the applicant knows a human is reading the application he can simply write what he did and allow the human to judge. But when it's a computer and a checkbox, he's doing himself a huge disservice to put his app at the bottom of the stack when others game it better.
"List the schools you've attended." One day workshop at the local gliderport on thermalling? Sure! Check! One more line and one more point on the app. Might as well throw my recurrent classes in there too.
"Have you ever failed a checkride?" Okay, if a 141 stagecheck is a checkride then...
"Have you ever been a check airmen?" Is a 141 stagecheck instructor a check airmen? Is there a difference between a check airman and a check airmen or is one just plural? Lawyers?
I'd say certain stagechecks count as checkrides and not others. Yet a stagecheck instructor is not a check airmen because check airmen and check instructor are defined in 121 and 141 respectively. A check instructor is an airman though, so maybe he is a check airmen. Really, I don't know. That's just my **** legal opinion. Is someone with a different legal opinion a liar? I knew a regional FO who was hired at Delta after scoring himself as a check airmen on airlineapps.com because he gave stagechecks at 141 school. But a clerk did read over it and ask him about it during the interview so he's in. He got the seniority number years before his buds because of, IMHO, his ignorance, Delta's error, and the way airlines score apps almost entirely on structured data with very limited human oversight.
When the applicant knows a human is reading the application he can simply write what he did and allow the human to judge. But when it's a computer and a checkbox, he's doing himself a huge disservice to put his app at the bottom of the stack when others game it better.
"List the schools you've attended." One day workshop at the local gliderport on thermalling? Sure! Check! One more line and one more point on the app. Might as well throw my recurrent classes in there too.
United on the other hand...
04-20-2016 | 11:59 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 30
From: Volleyball Player
It's debate-able in the airline apps context. They should clarify what they want. What about 141 CP/ACP? They can do EOCs, and may or may not be able to issue a certificate (examining authority). But it's still pretty obvious on airline apps what types or airplanes you were instructing/examing on based on flight times.
04-21-2016 | 08:58 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
The reason why it is ridiculous with the stage checks is if you went to a part 142 school that did final checks or stage checks, you're therefore vulnerable to many many more failures that will obviously ruin your career.
You're better off going to an online university and getting a garbage degree in basket weaving and going to a part 61 school where you can pay the same DE for all your ratings. The same DE that everyone knows you can buy a liter of rum for and you're almost guaranteed a pass, as opposed to a 141/142 school examiner who will fail you not on Part 91 rules, but on rules based on the more stringent school's rules.
You're better off going to an online university and getting a garbage degree in basket weaving and going to a part 61 school where you can pay the same DE for all your ratings. The same DE that everyone knows you can buy a liter of rum for and you're almost guaranteed a pass, as opposed to a 141/142 school examiner who will fail you not on Part 91 rules, but on rules based on the more stringent school's rules.
04-21-2016 | 09:16 AM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 0
The reason why it is ridiculous with the stage checks is if you went to a part 142 school that did final checks or stage checks, you're therefore vulnerable to many many more failures that will obviously ruin your career.
You're better off going to an online university and getting a garbage degree in basket weaving and going to a part 61 school where you can pay the same DE for all your ratings. The same DE that everyone knows you can buy a liter of rum for and you're almost guaranteed a pass, as opposed to a 141/142 school examiner who will fail you not on Part 91 rules, but on rules based on the more stringent school's rules.
You're better off going to an online university and getting a garbage degree in basket weaving and going to a part 61 school where you can pay the same DE for all your ratings. The same DE that everyone knows you can buy a liter of rum for and you're almost guaranteed a pass, as opposed to a 141/142 school examiner who will fail you not on Part 91 rules, but on rules based on the more stringent school's rules.
I have been away from that area for a while, but back in my 141 days, students could never "fail" a stage check.... They could "incomplete" one and do it over later, but there was no such thing as "failing" a check ride-because they didn't take "check rides," they took stage checks-and stage checks could not be failed.
04-21-2016 | 12:28 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 30
From: Volleyball Player
I have been away from that area for a while, but back in my 141 days, students could never "fail" a stage check.... They could "incomplete" one and do it over later, but there was no such thing as "failing" a check ride-because they didn't take "check rides," they took stage checks-and stage checks could not be failed.
04-21-2016 | 01:30 PM
#120
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 699
Likes: 5
From: 757/767 Capt
My two cents, Albie's concerns are valid and should be heeded. As far as interviews, I went to only two (Prior AF) and was lucky enough to get hired at both. Something to think about if your not inclined to pay for Albie's service , which I understand is very good.. Think about how your going to answer the standard " Why do you want to work here" question, or "what are you most proud of" etc etc . I'm UPS, and at my interview the HR woman asked me, " Why UPS when United and Southwest are hiring too?" I could have answered with the standard robotic reply of "Worlds largest logistical carrier blah blah blah.." Instead I answered " Bright Shiny Trucks". She looked at me confused, then asked me to explain. I told her I grew up in The Bronx in the 1970's where everything was dented and dirty, whenever I saw a UPS truck it was clean and shiny, unlike everything else around the Bronx in the 70's. I told her that if the company cared that much about their trucks and image it must be a great place to work etc etc....I know she liked that answer cause she remembered me at Indoc a few weeks later. Be prepared,
Good luck to all you guys.
Good luck to all you guys.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
