Thoughts on how planned Delta/NWA merger will change Republic
02-20-2008, 03:56 PM
#42
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by Bond
Apparently you're unfamiliar with scope clause at CAL, I don't really have time to educate you, but let me say it again (I know it hurts) YOU WILL NEVER FLY A 170 for CAL, unless you become a CAL pilot, and they agree to fly them....
The "regional" flying belongs to Continental Airlines, and they do what they please with it, they can give it to a company, and just as easily take it away.
Furthermore the preacher at RAH has stated over and over that you guys are to get away from 50 seaters, so by default I see the CAL flying going away, unless he's willing to invest on Q400's.
For someone that claims he's been in the industry as long as you say you have, you sure take things personal....
The "regional" flying belongs to Continental Airlines, and they do what they please with it, they can give it to a company, and just as easily take it away.
Furthermore the preacher at RAH has stated over and over that you guys are to get away from 50 seaters, so by default I see the CAL flying going away, unless he's willing to invest on Q400's.
For someone that claims he's been in the industry as long as you say you have, you sure take things personal....
1. We'll keep flying the 140s for AA until the contracts up. Why? Because it's a secured contract making money. They might not renew it who knows.
2. We aren't giving up any CAL flying unless we don't have an option. CAL makes money so we'll keep flying there also. There's no reason to give up on a sure thing. A guaranteed contract is guaranteed money.
3. I've said it a few times, and been close to being strung up for it, but just because CAL has scope now doesn't mean they will in the future. We don't know how their negotiations are going to go. I know you'd like to believe the pilots there have a firm hold on everything but then take a look at SKW and what their group voted yes on. If there's anything we've learned it's that you don't know what people are willing to go for. A guarantee of no reduction in flying, 30% pay increase, and threat of a merger might be enough to make some say "sure lets allow up to 90 seats". There is nothing that's set in stone here.
02-20-2008, 04:07 PM
#43
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: On Top
Posts: 742
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
Our "Preacher" hasn't stated over and over that 50 seaters are going away. He's said the 135s are going away starting now and going to be replaced with larger aircraft for the Delta flying. Don't think BB is going to give up a profitable setup. Pilots have said things like "It's well known BB doesn't want them" and "He doesn't like the 50 seaters" but BB hasn't come out and said they are going way. That's just people reading other pilot's post over and over until it become facts. One day they might be gone but that doesn't make the assumptions of his statements anymore true. I'll tell you a few things you can bank on though.
1. We'll keep flying the 140s for AA until the contracts up. Why? Because it's a secured contract making money. They might not renew it who knows.
2. We aren't giving up any CAL flying unless we don't have an option. CAL makes money so we'll keep flying there also. There's no reason to give up on a sure thing. A guaranteed contract is guaranteed money.
3. I've said it a few times, and been close to being strung up for it, but just because CAL has scope now doesn't mean they will in the future. We don't know how their negotiations are going to go. I know you'd like to believe the pilots there have a firm hold on everything but then take a look at SKW and what their group voted yes on. If there's anything we've learned it's that you don't know what people are willing to go for. A guarantee of no reduction in flying, 30% pay increase, and threat of a merger might be enough to make some say "sure lets allow up to 90 seats". There is nothing that's set in stone here.
1. We'll keep flying the 140s for AA until the contracts up. Why? Because it's a secured contract making money. They might not renew it who knows.
2. We aren't giving up any CAL flying unless we don't have an option. CAL makes money so we'll keep flying there also. There's no reason to give up on a sure thing. A guaranteed contract is guaranteed money.
3. I've said it a few times, and been close to being strung up for it, but just because CAL has scope now doesn't mean they will in the future. We don't know how their negotiations are going to go. I know you'd like to believe the pilots there have a firm hold on everything but then take a look at SKW and what their group voted yes on. If there's anything we've learned it's that you don't know what people are willing to go for. A guarantee of no reduction in flying, 30% pay increase, and threat of a merger might be enough to make some say "sure lets allow up to 90 seats". There is nothing that's set in stone here.
Close to 50% of the pilots at CAL came from a regional airline over the course of the past 12 years, over 1,000 from XJT alone. Most of them understand that giving up scope is giving up jobs, and have been able to witness first hand what the "regional" airlines have done to the majors. 100% of the guys at CAL i've talked to (and believe me I see them every other leg on the routes I bid) have stated, that there's no amount of money that will buy job security. One of this days talk to a CAL pilot, and see for yourself.
Your comparasson of CAL with SKW is apples to oranges. CAL is ALPA and can actually negotiate a contract, SKW is well, nothing, they have to accept whatever management gives them...remember, no union!
Perhaps you should tell your fellow co-workers to stop spreading the gospel of the father..lol...cause here in IAH they're all singing the same tune about his holyness desires...lol. I have a few really good friends at RAH and I wish you guys nothing but the best, I also appreciate you approaching the subject objectively and not taking it personally.
02-20-2008, 04:22 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
its not personal...not by a long shot......
And as for Scope, I was around and in the union ( eagle pilots back in the day were part of APA )when APA said EAGLE will NEVER fly JETS... not 50 seat jets not 70 seats JETS ...NEVER>..... is a strong word.... NOTHING is absolute in this business.
Do I want to fly or would I encourage the flying of larger and larger aircraft at these types of airlines...no.... on the other hand I will also not bite the hand that feeds me until the time that it no longer does. If mainline carriers want the flying back and they hire to fill those aircraft GREAT most of us will be trying to go there... on the other hand...... If they leave the flying where its at..many of us will be here slugging it out.....some for their whole careers.
In a perfect world mainline would have an epiphaney that they need this flying back and hire us all to fly it..... then there is the easter bunny.....
TD..... oh I knew that answer.... was just wondering what the poster thought.
good luck mr. bond.... WE all will need it.
And as for Scope, I was around and in the union ( eagle pilots back in the day were part of APA )when APA said EAGLE will NEVER fly JETS... not 50 seat jets not 70 seats JETS ...NEVER>..... is a strong word.... NOTHING is absolute in this business.
Do I want to fly or would I encourage the flying of larger and larger aircraft at these types of airlines...no.... on the other hand I will also not bite the hand that feeds me until the time that it no longer does. If mainline carriers want the flying back and they hire to fill those aircraft GREAT most of us will be trying to go there... on the other hand...... If they leave the flying where its at..many of us will be here slugging it out.....some for their whole careers.
In a perfect world mainline would have an epiphaney that they need this flying back and hire us all to fly it..... then there is the easter bunny.....
TD..... oh I knew that answer.... was just wondering what the poster thought.
good luck mr. bond.... WE all will need it.
02-20-2008, 04:30 PM
#46
Am I Wrong??????????
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: ThE jEtTtTtTtT
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
We are are we? And where do you work? Do you know anything you're talking about? You're saying RAH is flying more seats for less pay? Show me where? Anywhere. Also our contract was post 9/11. The rest of the industry took paycuts but the new RAH contract did pretty good. Things are going to be better on this next one as well. I don't mind bashing RAH so long as you make it accurate.
Im sorry I should have been more specific....your Capt. payscales are right on par....your FO rates are not. Im not trying to bash RAH....I just get sick of all these new FO's walking around PHL and DCA bragging about how "AWESOME" the 170/5 is how RAH isnt a regional and blah blah blah.
Ill be the first to admit....everytime I see a 170 taxi in front of me....im a slight bit jelous. But....I wont fly a bigger plane than my CRJ for less money than I am making now...and even at that Horizon is the only airline that has our FO payscales beat.
Then again.....not too many guys wanna stay as FO's forever....so if upgrade is running 2.5 years....it isnt all too bad for the guys there.
Good luck on the new contract....hopefully you guys get some rigs built in
02-20-2008, 05:34 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 169
Originally Posted by Flyboy8784
Im sorry I should have been more specific....your Capt. payscales are right on par....your FO rates are not. Im not trying to bash RAH....I just get sick of all these new FO's walking around PHL and DCA bragging about how "AWESOME" the 170/5 is how RAH isnt a regional and blah blah blah.
I'm just curious.
Or do you strike up a conversation with an obviously new, junior, enthusiastic, kool-aid swilling FO where you can still smell the sizing on thier uniform and bait them to say stupid things?
Or is this just complete BS?
02-20-2008, 06:26 PM
#48
Am I Wrong??????????
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: ThE jEtTtTtTtT
Posts: 662
Generally its whenever we have you guys DH on our flights...and we are waiting for a plane....we BS with eachother.....the Captains usually talk and the FO's usually talk. And yes they are all usually brand new...clean flight cases and bags....still got those crappy strings hanging off the M&H uniform shirts. 
Again I know how it is when your fresh out of training...and I know these guys are excited. I also said before im slightly jelous because I think the 170 is a great airplane and I wish AWAC had them instead of the Mediocre Jet (CRJ).
Im honestly not trying to bait them...I just make small talk...ask them how training was and how the experience has been so far. I get alot of answers that go like this "The airplane is awesome...the flying is good...Crews are Awesome....but the pay blows"
Im not trying to start fights with anyone....i lived in a crashpad with 8 RAH guys in DCA....and they were all fantastic individuals.
If you guys manage to raise 1st and 2nd year FO pay in your new contract...theres no question you guys will be one of the most desired airlines to work for. So I hope it all works out for you
Side note: You guys need to Push for ACARS....its a neat little machine...sucks when its MEL'd but when its working...makes things soo much quicker/easier
Again I know how it is when your fresh out of training...and I know these guys are excited. I also said before im slightly jelous because I think the 170 is a great airplane and I wish AWAC had them instead of the Mediocre Jet (CRJ).
Im honestly not trying to bait them...I just make small talk...ask them how training was and how the experience has been so far. I get alot of answers that go like this "The airplane is awesome...the flying is good...Crews are Awesome....but the pay blows"
Im not trying to start fights with anyone....i lived in a crashpad with 8 RAH guys in DCA....and they were all fantastic individuals.
If you guys manage to raise 1st and 2nd year FO pay in your new contract...theres no question you guys will be one of the most desired airlines to work for. So I hope it all works out for you
Side note: You guys need to Push for ACARS....its a neat little machine...sucks when its MEL'd but when its working...makes things soo much quicker/easier
02-20-2008, 06:42 PM
#49
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by Bond
Close to 50% of the pilots at CAL came from a regional airline over the course of the past 12 years, over 1,000 from XJT alone. Most of them understand that giving up scope is giving up jobs, and have been able to witness first hand what the "regional" airlines have done to the majors. 100% of the guys at CAL i've talked to (and believe me I see them every other leg on the routes I bid) have stated, that there's no amount of money that will buy job security. One of this days talk to a CAL pilot, and see for yourself.
Your comparasson of CAL with SKW is apples to oranges. CAL is ALPA and can actually negotiate a contract, SKW is well, nothing, they have to accept whatever management gives them...remember, no union!
Perhaps you should tell your fellow co-workers to stop spreading the gospel of the father..lol...cause here in IAH they're all singing the same tune about his holyness desires...lol. I have a few really good friends at RAH and I wish you guys nothing but the best, I also appreciate you approaching the subject objectively and not taking it personally.
Your comparasson of CAL with SKW is apples to oranges. CAL is ALPA and can actually negotiate a contract, SKW is well, nothing, they have to accept whatever management gives them...remember, no union!
Perhaps you should tell your fellow co-workers to stop spreading the gospel of the father..lol...cause here in IAH they're all singing the same tune about his holyness desires...lol. I have a few really good friends at RAH and I wish you guys nothing but the best, I also appreciate you approaching the subject objectively and not taking it personally.
02-20-2008, 06:49 PM
#50
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by Flyboy8784
Im sorry I should have been more specific....your Capt. payscales are right on par....your FO rates are not. Im not trying to bash RAH....I just get sick of all these new FO's walking around PHL and DCA bragging about how "AWESOME" the 170/5 is how RAH isnt a regional and blah blah blah.
Ill be the first to admit....everytime I see a 170 taxi in front of me....im a slight bit jelous. But....I wont fly a bigger plane than my CRJ for less money than I am making now...and even at that Horizon is the only airline that has our FO payscales beat.
Then again.....not too many guys wanna stay as FO's forever....so if upgrade is running 2.5 years....it isnt all too bad for the guys there.
Good luck on the new contract....hopefully you guys get some rigs built in
Ill be the first to admit....everytime I see a 170 taxi in front of me....im a slight bit jelous. But....I wont fly a bigger plane than my CRJ for less money than I am making now...and even at that Horizon is the only airline that has our FO payscales beat.
Then again.....not too many guys wanna stay as FO's forever....so if upgrade is running 2.5 years....it isnt all too bad for the guys there.
Good luck on the new contract....hopefully you guys get some rigs built in
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