Why DAL's proposed ratio is inequitable
05-03-2008, 05:34 AM
#301
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
Long time ago
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Keenster, I am curious if you would mind posting the short version of what NWA felt was the fair and equitable way to merger Republic in your last merger. It would make for interesting reading. At a minimum it should show they the only fair method for each pilot is the method that puts him the highest up the seniority list. I will give you a hint. NWA was wildely oppposed to DOH and back then DOH was a component of ALPA merger policy which it is not today.
So long ago I'm not sure what the Nwa porposal was but guess what, We got what we got and that was date of hire with fences. Also, what each group brought ot the table in that merger is not even close in terms of what each party is bringing to the table this time. I know these things are debatable and that is what we are doing here. Each side wanting to get the best deal for its group it is only human nature. Hopefully there is some middle ground here that will work for everyone. I do hope for all of us that we get a number and can fly what that number will let you fly and the whole thing is done. I think that no bump no flush would be a good thing. The delta guys would have a built in fence because of the much younger average age of their top senority guys verses the average age of the Nwa top seniority guys.
I am tired of this deal already and all of us have to live with what ever the rest of our careers. Just want to get it behind us and move on which may include me getting outta here. THAT WOULD PROBABLY MAKE THE GUYS BELOW ME HAPPY. I think that you will see NWA retirements pick up again after the deal is done and the dust settles especially if there is no equity stake for the NWA guys.
Last edited by keenster; 05-03-2008 at 07:30 AM.
05-03-2008, 06:13 AM
#302
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by Widebody
Keenster,
You get the same guarantee as I. With the combined losses we both just published, we may both be mowing lawns in the near future. Btw, I get dibs on the riding mower...
You get the same guarantee as I. With the combined losses we both just published, we may both be mowing lawns in the near future. Btw, I get dibs on the riding mower...
05-03-2008, 06:14 AM
#303
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Widebody
Well, the mass exodus occurred as we approached bankruptcy at DAL. They took the 50% lump sum expecting the retirement would be lost in bankruptcy. Probably a good move for some. The DAL pilot retirement plan was liquidated. DAL pilots age 53 will recover a good portion of their monies. The rest will get PBGC payouts. NWA's plan is frozen, correct? I assume that means at some date you will recieve a portion of it. Since both of these events occurred prior to this alleged merger, I don't consider that I'm entitled to a portion of your frozen pension. Likewise I don't see why you should expect seniority list compensation for our past retirements. Try to give a 'big boy' respone this time, and maybe some useful information can be gained by both of us, k?
And why should you expect seniority compensation from our upcoming retirements? Regardless of how long senior NWA guys stay, they will still have to retire. If DALPA massages the ratio for a dynamic seniority list just right, they can make it so DAL pilots get every ounce out of NWA retirements.
05-03-2008, 06:25 AM
#304
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
Not the best typist.
Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
Keenster,
I will guarantee you that you will lose a spelling competition with your loose command of proper spelling.
I will guarantee you that you will lose a spelling competition with your loose command of proper spelling.
I can spell but not very good at the typing part on this small keyboard. I'll try to do better for you. See if I can get the spell Check to work.
see ya later
05-03-2008, 06:30 AM
#305
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
Doulbe windfall.
Originally Posted by johnso29
And why should you expect seniority compensation from our upcoming retirements? Regardless of how long senior NWA guys stay, they will still have to retire. If DALPA massages the ratio for a dynamic seniority list just right, they can make it so DAL pilots get every ounce out of NWA retirements.
I agree! The delta guys have had one seniorty boost and now want to be inline for another. Wonder what would be going on if the mass exidous of delta guys did not occur. We would probably have been able to put this togehter the first time around because the older Delta guys would have been senior and at the top of the list. That is really about what all this is about.
05-03-2008, 06:41 AM
#306
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by keenster
I am tired of this deal already and all of us have to live with what ever the rest of our careers. Just want to get it behind us and move on which may include me getting outta here. THAT WOULD PROBABLY MAKE THE GUYS BELOW ME HAPPY. I think that you will see NWA retirements pick up again after the deal is done and the dust settles especially if there is no equity stake for the NWA guys.
You don't have to leave, just go do narrow body capt so I can do that bigol whale.
Concur on the tired of this already. Maybe getting off the web boards and actually getting some sun?
Ferd
05-03-2008, 06:47 AM
#307
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by keenster
I agree! The delta guys have had one seniorty boost and now want to be inline for another. Wonder what would be going on if the mass exidous of delta guys did not occur. We would probably have been able to put this togehter the first time around because the older Delta guys would have been senior and at the top of the list. That is really about what all this is about.
Hey, won't work but sturs the pot as well as anything else mentioned on here
Ferd
05-03-2008, 07:32 AM
#308
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 767ER Captain
Posts: 14
Ride that wave ferd...
It's not the other way around and it's not several years ago. Is an arbitrator going to pull me out of that ER left seat and put keenster in it? Not likely. Will he fence in the DAL majority and let the NWA minority run wild thru the streets of College Park, GA? I doubt it. Only if they choose ferd or keenster's mother as the arbritrator could this happen, and I've heard even they don't like you two very much...
05-03-2008, 07:45 AM
#309
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
good move
Originally Posted by tomgoodman
Plenty of good reasons: they could take a 50% lump sum, bankruptcy and big wage cuts were looming, they had to go at 60 anyway, and the pension plan was (correctly) rumored to be severely underfunded, so it was possible that they might get only the PBGC minimum if they waited.
Keenster
05-03-2008, 07:55 AM
#310
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: FO forever
Posts: 413
respect
Originally Posted by Widebody
It's not the other way around and it's not several years ago. Is an arbitrator going to pull me out of that ER left seat and put keenster in it? Not likely. Will he fence in the DAL majority and let the NWA minority run wild thru the streets of College Park, GA? I doubt it. Only if they choose ferd or keenster's mother as the arbritrator could this happen, and I've heard even they don't like you two very much...
If you check through my post you will find that I have stated time and time again that I do not want to take any Delta pilot seat away from a Delta guy and Do not want to bump or flush any Delta guy. I do not want to run wild through your streets in ATL. I used to live there and never would put up with the traffic again. I have more valuable things to do than set in traffic jambs all the time. Who knows what an arbritrator will do I hope that each side some how shares some pain and some gain and we move on. I don't want to see the Delta guys nailed to the cross nor do I want to be nailed to the cross. You guys would be in serious trouble if my mom were the arbitrator-- she is a pit bull dog on steroids X10. We would all be in trouble.
Keenster
