Originally Posted by slowplay

Last time around (the February Negotiators TA that was never presented to your MEC, much less approved by your MEC) took nearly 6 weeks to produce (January 11-February 21), not the 3 days you describe. That was done when oil was $90-$105 per barrel, not $135. Back then the parties were talking about taking part of the profits from the merged company. The scenario now is one of management trying to minimize the losses of the merged company. That's a significantly more difficult negotiation.

Of course, there are still members of the NWA team that think that DALPA made up all the deadlines to get a pre-merger deal done.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Let's see Karl, the LOA passes on Wednesday morning and the joint negotiating team meets on Wednesday PM. Damn those guys for stalling through lunch.

Originally Posted by newKnow

How could you find the same shop twice? That pearl market is HUGE!!

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Don't know what you are referring to. I'm referring to the joint contract that was negotiated in 3 days between DALPA and NWALPA. You know, the one that was contingent upon agreement on an SLI? NWALPA was not involved in any such 6 week negotiating process as you state.

Carl

Originally Posted by slowplay

Better check again with NWALPA, or they were on a very expensive Manhattan vacation at the Muse and Palace hotels. You should provide a little more oversight of your dues dollars.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

It's amazing how well you are able to account for the whereabouts of our ALPA reps. How DO you do it!!

Carl

Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY

Maybe he is one of your reps in disquise?

Originally Posted by Selcall

Here is the problem with Date of Hire:

DOH is only relative to your current employer. In the business world DOH from a previous employer has no relevance to your newest employer. On the day that the two airlines become one global airline officially we will all have a new DOH with that respective company. Now I am not saying anyone will loose their respective longevity towards benefits or anything else, but just trying to debunk the myth that your DOH at airline "ABC" and my DOH and airline "DEF" has any merit or validity at new airline "ABCDEF".

For this reason I think that relative seniority integration is the appropriate choice. We could always fall back to ALPA membership number and base all the seniority on how long you have been a member at ALPA but that will fly like a lead turd. I am trying to see why everyone is all bent out of shape about being integrated on a list where a pilot hired by airline ABC in 1989 is one number junior to a pilot hired by airline DEF in 1995 if both pilots' relative senoirity in the combined airline has them within 1 to 2 % of senoirity of their "PREVIOUS" Airline employer?

I think its moronic for people to assume that your years of experience by virtue of your DOH grant you the ability to jump ahead in seniority of people at another airline just because that person started at their company 6 years after you did.

If you truly believe that then why doesn't every MEC make it a National issue that every regional pilot who gets hired (by a new company!!!!) by a legacy airline, at LCC airline, or another regoinal airline; that his years of experience in the National Airspace system flying those "D*mn RJ's" around at his previous employer are credited to him on the new airline's seniority list. I mean they are clogging up airports and airspace all over the USA with those small jets and turbo props in the same places all us "Big Boys and our Toys" go so why not? You know why that doesn't happen? Because we sold that load of crap down the river years ago believing management's argument that first year pilots should receive significantly lower wages than their counterparts because we (the airline) cannot use them to create revenue for several months because we have to train them to fly our way and our planes. This is the only business in the world where an individual has to take a significant pay cut his first year to be promoted to the real airline jobs and the "big money". Only in the airlines industry does one get "promoted" to the big company and take a paycut. While their may be some, I doubt the number is significant, of people that take paycuts to get promoted in the business world.

I am amazed by the hiprocacy and just plain ignorance on the part of many people on this board who want to complain about "their seniority" and what they are losing without taking time to attempt to completely comprehend any and all proposals. Many of you need to stop pontificating, put down the keyboard and wait patiently to see exactly what is being offered and what the proposals are. Then after the facts are known let's get debate those facts and see what we can do to reach a compromise. What a novel idea.

Originally Posted by keenster

Well, Being an August 1985 hire at NWA I have a problem with relative seniority. I have paid my dues and time at NWA to get the future retirements coming in the next five years which are substantial. DAL RS proposal puts 1500 junior DOH delta pilots ahead of me with the majority of them being younger than me which will allow them to take my 750 or so retirements from the nwa side which they would have never had. The majority of these positions are wide body positions. I would say that this is a huge windfall for the delta guys. I sit there watching delta guys fill seats that would have been open for me. If there were equal retirements on the Delta side I would have no beef. You may have retirements coming in th future, but where on your list do they come from. Any way IT is complicated and there is no simple answer. Most everyone will feel that he or she probably got screwed. I for one just hope that we can keep a good job and company going. Good luck to us all.

keenster