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Old 05-28-2008, 08:17 AM   #451  
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No, but I wish it was. I'm not anywhere near that imaginative or funny.

Carl
"Don't sell yourself short judge... you're a tremendous slouch".... well.... something like that
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:37 PM   #452  
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"Don't sell yourself short judge... you're a tremendous slouch".... well.... something like that
Excellent retort! I had forgotten that line. Another classic.

Carl
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:56 PM   #453  
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Excellent retort! I had forgotten that line. Another classic.

Carl

I can see you guys bidding for who gets first rest for the 13 hour trip across the pond already.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:50 PM   #454  
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hey keenster... so let's assume that you are right and dal doesn't have any retirements that you are so convinced NWA does have. how about the growth side of the equation? yup... you are right. the DAL guys are gonna be falling all over themselves to get into YOUR dwindeling fleet while watching OURS grow... it's all so clear now... thanks

tsquare,

Not sure how long you have been around this business, but the above post sure shows a since of having your head stuck in the sand. First of all, the NWA retirements are a fact of law and can be counted. Second of all I am flying with guys every month that are retiring at 60 and some are even going before 60. Some are hanging around hoping for an equity stake and then bail. No one has said they are hanging around to be a "Delta Pilot" or to get a pay raise. This is factual because I am flying with these senior guys every day. Fact, we have many more retirements in the next 5-10 years than Delta.

Fact, Your growth plan is just that a plan. It is not law and can change at any moment. Never count on an airplane coming until it is on the property. Also, I did not realize that we have a fleet and that you have a fleet after this merger takes place. I think that Delta management has a fleet as they are the owners of the planes and leases. What they choose to do, no one knows but I hope that it is something very wise and good for the pilot group.

Fact, We are in the worst possible economic time in a very long time and oil is at an all time high. Probably capacity will have to be cut in order to be a viable airline. I don't think that bodes well for growth although I hope that I am wrong. I think that growth happens for the whole airline not just a segment of it.

Fact, If you can bid a higher paying position and have more days off I think that any sane pilot would do that. There might be some DAL pilots that want to fly the 400 or NWA guys that want to fly the 777. I would speak for myslef and not your entire pilot group.

Also, the big pay raise that is talked about so much will really not do much for the NWA guys. We are flying 87 hours max. Cutting to 75 hours actually gives us a pay cut with the new rates. Might break even if we are lucky. But, am for working less that is good.

Just remember that airplane orders are just that orders!!! They are not real until they are on the ramp. We had 340 orders but where are they??? I had a 747 captian bid the month before 9/11 hit and bang that went away. Growth gone just like that.

Any way enough soap box. I have voiced my thoughts.

God Speed and Good Luck to US All!!!!!!
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:14 PM   #455  
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The rumor I heard was that 747-400 would be converted to cargo and replaced in passenger service with 777's. The point to point in Asia however may not be that huge. With the advent of the 787 coming on line there will be a lot more direct service to smaller cities in Asia bye passing hubs. Much like what happened in Europe and doomed Deltas point to point out of Frankfurt.
Slots in NRT are like gold. Just like slots in LGA or JFK Want to give some of them up? Have been flying the pacific for 20 years in and out of NRT. It is a hub just like ATL,DTW,MSP,SLC,etc. I see alot of 403 pass count on the acars that is full on the 400.

If your philosophy is correct all our hubs should go away. Lets be SWA. We could not have enough widebodies to fly to all the possible cities in Asia and also the current route structure would not support the traffic. Also, some markets will not support a widebody. That is why we have 757s flying markets out of NRT. We have FIFTH FREEDOM RIGHTS and only United has the same rights no other US carriers have this. We can pick up Japan originating passengers and take them anywhere in asia and return them to Japan. Delta, US AIr, Continental, American and the rest can't. Good for Delta that they are getting these Rights. Japan market is highly regulated and slots are few and far in between. So you are talking about a hub that has been in operation longer than some Existing Delta hubs. It sould be expanded not shrunk. I have heard alot about the growth over there on the DAL side.

good luck to us all !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 05-28-2008, 10:13 PM   #456  
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Just remember that airplane orders are just that orders!!!

Keenster
Don't know how long you've been in this business, but just remember, that a retirement is not a retirement until they retire.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:13 AM   #457  
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tsquare,

Not sure how long you have been around this business, but the above post sure shows a since of having your head stuck in the sand. First of all, the NWA retirements are a fact of law and can be counted. Second of all I am flying with guys every month that are retiring at 60 and some are even going before 60. Some are hanging around hoping for an equity stake and then bail. No one has said they are hanging around to be a "Delta Pilot" or to get a pay raise. This is factual because I am flying with these senior guys every day. Fact, we have many more retirements in the next 5-10 years than Delta.

Fact, Your growth plan is just that a plan. It is not law and can change at any moment. Never count on an airplane coming until it is on the property. Also, I did not realize that we have a fleet and that you have a fleet after this merger takes place. I think that Delta management has a fleet as they are the owners of the planes and leases. What they choose to do, no one knows but I hope that it is something very wise and good for the pilot group.

Fact, We are in the worst possible economic time in a very long time and oil is at an all time high. Probably capacity will have to be cut in order to be a viable airline. I don't think that bodes well for growth although I hope that I am wrong. I think that growth happens for the whole airline not just a segment of it.

Fact, If you can bid a higher paying position and have more days off I think that any sane pilot would do that. There might be some DAL pilots that want to fly the 400 or NWA guys that want to fly the 777. I would speak for myslef and not your entire pilot group.

Also, the big pay raise that is talked about so much will really not do much for the NWA guys. We are flying 87 hours max. Cutting to 75 hours actually gives us a pay cut with the new rates. Might break even if we are lucky. But, am for working less that is good.

Just remember that airplane orders are just that orders!!! They are not real until they are on the ramp. We had 340 orders but where are they??? I had a 747 captian bid the month before 9/11 hit and bang that went away. Growth gone just like that.

Any way enough soap box. I have voiced my thoughts.

God Speed and Good Luck to US All!!!!!!
Keenster

I've been around long enough to see 2 mergers here at DAL... well I got here just after the WAL merger, but I flew with a LOT of former WAL guys. And I don't pretend to speak for all DAL pilots. Our MEC does that.

As for the payrate thing.. In a political setting it can be argued any way. Payraise, paycut.. whatever makes you happy. The thing is, that IF you want, you can work 1000 hours/year. The 75 hours is just for the initial bid award. You can pick up anything in open time, anytime you want. With higher pay rates, I can't help but see that as a payraise. IOW.. IF you work the same number of hours, and receive mo money... isn't that a payraise from your current situation? Or am I missing something? So work only 75 if you want... but don't call that a paycut. And just for my edification, how can you work 87 hours/month? You would time out sometime in early December wouldn't you? We have quarterly limits and a complicated formula for dcetermining how much we can fly, but I majored in architecture, not mathematics... Charley Epps might know.

As for your other assertions that orders are orders.. and all... no argument.. but retirements are not retirements until the walk out the door either. Agreed? All they guys I fly with are younger than me, so I don't have the perspective of flying with guys near retirement age like you do. Notwithstanding, they ain't gone till they are gone.

I too hope that management has a good plan. I will say that this management team is the best we have had here since I have been on the property. Kinda isn't sayin much in a way, but I think we now have some really sharp people on board. Guys who know how to make money for the company. (Not talking about Anderson... the jury's still out on him) The route guys are second in this business to none.

Yup... good luck to us all.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:23 AM   #458  
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Slots in NRT are like gold. Just like slots in LGA or JFK Want to give some of them up? Have been flying the pacific for 20 years in and out of NRT. It is a hub just like ATL,DTW,MSP,SLC,etc. I see alot of 403 pass count on the acars that is full on the 400.

If your philosophy is correct all our hubs should go away. Lets be SWA. We could not have enough widebodies to fly to all the possible cities in Asia and also the current route structure would not support the traffic. Also, some markets will not support a widebody. That is why we have 757s flying markets out of NRT. We have FIFTH FREEDOM RIGHTS and only United has the same rights no other US carriers have this. We can pick up Japan originating passengers and take them anywhere in asia and return them to Japan. Delta, US AIr, Continental, American and the rest can't. Good for Delta that they are getting these Rights. Japan market is highly regulated and slots are few and far in between. So you are talking about a hub that has been in operation longer than some Existing Delta hubs. It sould be expanded not shrunk. I have heard alot about the growth over there on the DAL side.

good luck to us all !!!!!!!!!!!!

keenster
What kind of pax counts do you have beyond Japan? Just curious. Can/do they support the 747? I know that what you talk of here is one of the big reasons that DAL wanted this merger. It gets us into places we would take years if EVER to acquire. So I have never minimalized the contribution that NWA brings to the party. I think most DAL guys (not speaking for them... but JMO) don't know much about Asia since we don't have a lot of presence there. Much like NWA guys don't know a lot about Europe other than AMS. I hear an interesting rumor that the combined company could fly those 5th freedom right cities with 767s or even 757 sized airplanes. I don't know... It's all conjecture anyway since I'm just a line dog.

Oh... and is NW 4 still the flight number from Manila? I flew back on ya'll from my time at Cubi point.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:05 AM   #459  
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[quote=tsquare;392909]

"And just for my edification, how can you work 87 hours/month? You would time out sometime in early December wouldn't you? We have quarterly limits and a complicated formula for dcetermining how much we can fly, but I majored in architecture, not mathematics... Charley Epps might know.

As for your other assertions that orders are orders.. and all... no argument.. but retirements are not retirements until the walk out the door either. Agreed? All they guys I fly with are younger than me, so I don't have the perspective of flying with guys near retirement age like you do. Notwithstanding, they ain't gone till they are gone."



You don't time out because you get several weeks of vacation, duty rigs, trip rigs, training pay, etc.

In response to the second question. They MAY go at 60, they WILL go by 65. Much more of a sure thing than orders, options and growth in $130+ oil.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:58 AM   #460  
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What kind of pax counts do you have beyond Japan? Just curious. Can/do they support the 747? I know that what you talk of here is one of the big reasons that DAL wanted this merger. It gets us into places we would take years if EVER to acquire. So I have never minimalized the contribution that NWA brings to the party. I think most DAL guys (not speaking for them... but JMO) don't know much about Asia since we don't have a lot of presence there. Much like NWA guys don't know a lot about Europe other than AMS. I hear an interesting rumor that the combined company could fly those 5th freedom right cities with 767s or even 757 sized airplanes. I don't know... It's all conjecture anyway since I'm just a line dog.

Oh... and is NW 4 still the flight number from Manila? I flew back on ya'll from my time at Cubi point.
Out of Nagoya, Osaka, and Narita the 757 (180 seats) flies to:
1. Busan, S. Korea
2. Guam
3. Saipan
4. Guangzhou, China
5. Taipai, Taiwan (I think)

As I remember, the flights were always full.

Everywhere else the flights are 330's and bigger.

Wait. I forgot. The -400 goes down to Guam. I think the 330 also goes to Saipan. Basically, to the Japanese, Guam and Saipan are like Hawaii is to Americans. We have multiple flights down to those Islands FULL of Japan mainland passengers as well as those who connect through Japan from elsewhere (like S. Korea).

NWA and UAL have something in Japan that is hard to explain until you see it. They are like national airlines over there which the Japanese use heavily to go to places other than the United States. When you go over there and look at the ramp, you would swear you are in DTW or ORD.

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