tsquare

Thanks Carl. I really don't think we are all that different. And FWIW, I have never really been a DALPA fan, until Lee Moak took office. Even when he did, I was very skeptical. But as you said he seems to be aa pretty good strategic thinker. I have really come to respect his administration, and look forward to seeing what he can do going forward.

Now about that gopher thing.....

slowplay

It's included in the LOA 19 resolution, Carl:

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

Does that make you feel better? Or do you prefer your MEC's technique of negotiating on youtube?

Personally, I'd prefer they do it in person.

Carl Spackler

Slow,

Let's put it this way, when I saw our MEC posturing on youtube it was..shall we say, not my proudest moment.

I've seen this resolution that was part of the LOA before, and it's very nice language but not at all convincing. Kind of like the Republicans saying how much they are looking forward to working with the new speaker Nancy Pelosi as they reach across the aisle to find common ground. I'm talking about a press release where DALPA lays down a marker and sets an invitation date to restart negotiations. As I've stated earlier, I think your MEC chairman is a pretty bright guy and must know what a PR disaster this could turn into when DAL management testifies before Congress to say how good this merger will be for all parties involved. The right thing to do is to issue a press release, and my bet is your MEC will do just that. Wishful thinking, maybe.

Carl

StripAlert

That's a good sentiment, but how does it reconcile with this?

You don't come out and say it, but what's the alternative? I think it's combining and then having the junior Delta pilots take it in the shorts next to the junior NWA pilots for the DC-9 retirements. (Before you jump in with "You guys were planning to park airplanes too," let me mention that it creates 32 more seats every time a 777 is delivered, and we were and are still planning to resume hiring after the summer rush, due to that fact alone.)

The amazing thing is that, had NWA's negotiating committee been able to find common ground on the SLI and gotten the original deal done, there would probably have been enough relative movement due to Delta's staffing formula (2 captains for flights >12 hours) and work rules (equating to more newhires at the bottom) to compensate for the short-term slowdown in retirements, as well as no worries about furloughs from either side due to aircraft retirements. Couple that with a better compensation package and furlough protection language for all, and it gets real clear just what NWA's negotiators left on the table in an attempt at their own personal seniority grab. (Not for all ya'll, mind you, as we say down here, but for the minority in control of the MEC at NWA.)

I don't blame you for being suspicious or angry, but think about who deserves it really.

Carl Spackler

Strip,

My two statements are entirely consistent. I meant every word of them, so I won't repeat them here.

What is wrong in my view is to assume that DAL will not reduce capacity. You're simply making it up when you say new 777's are going to offset your own narrow body reductions. If that's what you want to think that's fine, I won't try to convince you. DAL's statements are that hiring stops in May. DAL has issued no such statement that hiring will commence after the summer rush - that's just your opinion. DAL has issued statements that capacity must be reduced and jobs must go. Your statements to the contrary are just your opinions. And as far as your opinions on what REALLY happened during SLI negotiations and the REAL motives behind them, well...do I really have to say it?

The way LOA 19 is now structured, ALL capacity reductions and associated furloughs MUST come from NWA pilots only, once the merger is closed. Again DC-9's parked or MD-88's parked, only NWA pilots get furloughed. Whatever you have to do to convince yourself that is a deal done with integrity and looking out for your soon to be brothers, then do it. But don't expect an NWA pilot to actually believe it.

There is still time to amend the LOA, to wit: No furlough clause applies to both pilot groups equally, and any pay received after merger closing goes into escrow for distribution to all Delta pilots upon combined contract and SLI.

Carl

Spaceman Spliff

I'm confused as to exactly why your MEC could not/would not negotiate that wording for you on your behalf.

Now you expect DAL guys to do your negotiating and set money aside for you...while your negotiators are trying as hard as ever to screw over the DAL guys on SLI (and posturing to be combative and disruptive). You can't have it all.

Is it even be legal for DAL's MEC to amend your contract?

I've said it before...your beef should be with your MEC...not ours...and you probably shouldn't expect the folks you are trying to bend over to be terribly enthusiastic about putting their money in a piggy bank for you.

Carl Spackler

Both sides have stated that all items on the combined contract were settled, and that the stumbling block was the SLI. Are you saying that NWALPA signed off on a combined agreement that allowed for furloughs only on the NWA side? Do you have any proof of that? Since I assume you don't, then how could NWALPA negotiate an ALL pilot no furlough clause in an LOA to which we were not part of nor even knew of its contemplation?

You've already negotiated for us. Your scope changes allow NWA wide bodies to continue to fly after the merger closes. Without the scope changes, NWA wide bodies would have to be parked when the merger is closed. The fact that you think NWA has tried as hard as ever to SCREW OVER Delta pilots just means you've seen the two SLI proposals that most of the rest of us have not seen. Wonder how guys like you keep getting that info?

Not asking for that. Just asking to amend the LOA that DALPA signed that affects NWA on pay, scope, and furlough.

Carl

Scoop

Carl,
Thats not whats happening. I was at a roadshow explaining LOA 19 yesterday and there are provisions to prevent a whipsaw situation. Give our guys a little credit. For example if the joint contract and SLI were to drag out this is how aircraft orders will be handled:
Pre merger orders go to the company who ordered them. 787's for example will go to NW.
777's will go to DAL.
If there are orders for any equipment not on the property it will be split at the following ratio:
DAL-6/NW-4. If we were really trying to not include the NW guys why would we put the following into LOA 19.
Do you really think it would help the combined pilot group long term if one side was getting furloughed while the other had no-furlough protection? The plan is for a joint contract first (which shouldn't take long) and then an SLI which may now go to expedited arbitration. And finally if our plans were to drag this out now that we have our contract why would we agree to do the joint contract first and now agree to fast track arbitration? Because we want to be a single pilot group as soon as possible.
Look, anyone can run paranoid what if scenarios all day long but,it doesn't do anybody any good. Are the above actions consistent with the "screw the NW guys" theories that have been floating around? Did the two MEC chariman not put out a joint release yesterday. Time will shed light on all of the above issues.
Scoop

AV8ER13

Ummm, I am not sure how to respond, so I will bite my tounge...

That posting on Youtube was from a Press Conf. with MSP media explaining to them why our MEC is opposed to the Merger. I actually think it was great that it was posted on Youtube, that way I can actually see what was said...You know that way SOME PEOPLE, cant tell me what was supposedly said (even though they were not there)!

This, again, was from a PRESS CONF...not a bunch of kids of youtube!

AV8ER13

You are assuming that Mgmt and the pilots can agree to a new contract. If there is not a sweet deal offered, why should the NWA pilots be in a hurry to sign anything. Especially if there is not equity offered to the NWA pilots, not just more equity for all pilots, but atleast 3.5% specifically for the NWA pilots. There is not as much leverage now to get mgmt to give us alot more than you received IMHO.