sailingfun

Carl, You really need to read more carefully. You like to take one point and focus on it. If you read further in the post you will see where I point out the pay difference is not that great and that I suspect parity will be near the top of the list of not the top of the list. I was a Western Pilot and I did not get parity day one. I would have liked parity however it was not what we negotiated. Everything is a cost. Everything will be negotiated. The respective committees have to decide where they want to invest their capital. Again as I said I think parity will be at or near the top of that investment. Turning what I posted into a slam about Delta pilots is childish.

sailingfun

[quote=Flare Armed;399091]Well, we've had other pilot groups in our contract (Wester, for example) that had a different retirement program, but they were paid the same rates as anyone else...so I don't see why it has to be any different this time.

The idea of phasing in while separate ops are in effect seems fair...no different than how we operate today...but in principle it'd be better for us to be a unified group from day 1. No whipsawing....no finger pointing...just get it done.



There is a big difference in the retirement portion this time then between Western and Delta or Pan Am. They came aboard the Delta plan under a defined benefit type of plan. Both sides had prior retirement earnings they kept and went on the same retirement plan going forward. In this case the Delta retirement plan was terminated and the DC with its higher percentage amount was intended to help replace that plan. If you now bring another group on board with a intact retirement plan that requires ongoing funding to maintain but that only goes to a portion of the pilots should that portion of the pilots also get the same in the DC plan. Clearly the NWA pilot group felt that they should not and that is why they have a targeted DC plan. The question for the joint contract is should we maintain a targeted DC plan.

tsquare

If you think that was my intent, by all means, flame on. It was simply a what if type question designed to entice a bit of academic thought, which it seems you are totally incapable of. I am not going to waste any more time on you. Even Carl seems to think the idea has some merit (Not picking on you Carl.. really... BTW... did ya watch Caddyshack last night... I think it was on TNT or A&E...?) Your (AV8ER) fear hatred and vitriol are obvious, and nothing I can suppose or say will change that. So flame on if it makes you feel better... Life's too short to be so bitter.

NWA320pilot

If I have my info correct the funding of the NWA obligations is just about the same as what is required for the DAL obligations. That being said I think that both groups will keep what they currently have......

sailingfun

There are no onging funding obligations for pilot retirement at Delta. The plan has been terminated. The estimated funding obligations for the NWA plan are about 20 to 30 million a year using a 6.5% rate of return on current cash in the plan. If you have a down year in the market that could jump to 50 million or more in those years. If the market has a great year the obligations could be less.

Carl Spackler

Care to re-read my post to you and actually ANSWER it - instead of trying to change the subject?

I wasn't slamming Delta pilots, I was just slamming you. I even said that I think your point of view is a minority among Delta pilots. And you want ME to read more carefully?

Carl

Carl Spackler

Even Carl...EVEN CARL!!!

I heard it was on last night, and I missed it.

Carl

sailingfun

Carl, I am not sure what view of mine you are talking about. If it is about parity my view is that we should strive to have parity on the DCC. I think it is best for overall unity. I think the majority of Delta pilots support that. What I was trying to point out is that the Delta pilots don't control that. It is a negotiated item.
If you are talking about retirement then the majority of Delta pilots felt a equal DC for all pilots was fair going forward. The NWA pilots do not feel the same way and have a targeted plan. The questions becomes which version will survive into the joint contract.

Cogf16

All this talk about pay parity... how about retirement parity? How is it fair that NWA guys with a DB and now a new DC plan seek immediate pay parity yet DAL guys trail significantly in retirement? As stated before, in the JPWA, everything has a cost to it. Funding the existing DB plan, the new DC plan and immediate pay parity uses ALOT of negotiating capital. Anything in there for Delta guys? Oh yeah, a dynamic list, super seniority and "premium" wide body flying

Mark T Coghlin
Delta guy (surprise!)

Spaceman Spliff

True...very true.

My question to NWA guys would be: Shouldn't the new PWA give an equal "payout" in terms of increases in pay/work rules/retirement plans, etc. to both pilot groups? Wouldn't that be fair?

And if not...why not?

NWA guys want instant parity and want to keep their DB plans. Fair enough. What should DAL guys get in return for expending negotiating capital to achieve that? NWA guys don't really expect to get everything, do they?

I am not trying to start another fight. I think this is a valid question.