Nu,
Why should the 330 be paired with the 777? :confused: Current 12 year Capt rates are:
A 330 - $162/hour
767-400 $181/hour

Joint payrates ratified overwhelmingly by NW Pilots:

A 330- $182
767-400 $ 189

Unless its that "Super Premium" factor which we cannot put a price on. As a matter of fact its "priceless." :)

Scoop

Okay, how about we have the Delta list and fence it for 10 years? You get the protection you wanted. I'm not trying to take anything from you, please don't try to take anything from me.

A 5 year fence does protect your movement in the near term. My point with the chart was your retirements, based on age 65, are not that much different than ours. If there is some way for you to get credit for the 204 more earlier and us to get it 3years later, I'm all for it. But the argument that you have so many more pilots retiring, I recall someone saying 1000's,before we do is falling on deaf ears over on this side because the numbers just don't support it. It seems to me that you want your cake (DOH and your retirements) and to eat it too (our retirements later).

This is just going to go back and forth and is futile on both sides. The lawyers are gonna decide this one. But it is fun to go back and forth!!!:D


I truly do look forward to flying with you all and I got the first beer!!! Gotta go pick the kid up from football practice, be back later.:D

Denny

Payrates are meaningless when comparing because all of the rates, including the "new" ones are concessionary rates. Every rate was set up based on different circumstances. Pay rates change like the wind in this job, everyone knows that ;)

the only thing both sides agreed too was to modify the timeline and the number of arbitrators. Something allowed by ALPA merger policy. As far as how the arbitrators rule, I qoute from the SLI process agreement:

"The issue for resolution before the Arbitrators will be the fair and equitable integration of the pre-merger Delta and Northwest seniority lists consistent with ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy ("ALPA Merger Policy"). In making this determination, the Arbitrators will be bound by the pre-arbitration statement of resolved issues presented by the Representatives and will determine the remaining open issues with respect to an integrated seniority list."

I can promise you one thing Scoop - NWA pilots ratified the JCBA IN SPITE of the way those pay rates combined aircraft. The 747 being paid the same as a 777 even though the 747 carries over 100 more passengers made it pretty clear that DAL couldn't tolerate NWA operating an aircraft that would pay more than a 777. It was made all the more grating now that DALPA has made pay part of the equation for the SLI proposal.

That pay thing was a real and obvious sore point, but it was one of those "greater good" votes.

Carl

We've been over this already Xray. Consistent with ALPA merger policy is different from being IN ALPA merger policy. This arbitration is outside the process. We're plowing new ground

Carl

[quote=Carl Spackler;491496]I can promise you one thing Scoop - NWA pilots ratified the JCBA IN SPITE of the way those pay rates combined aircraft. The 747 being paid the same as a 777 even though the 747 carries over 100 more passengers made it pretty clear that DAL couldn't tolerate NWA operating an aircraft that would pay more than a 777. It was made all the more grating now that DALPA has made pay part of the equation for the SLI proposal.

Carl,
The only other US passenger carrier that flies both the 747 and 777 is UAL and guess what the pay rate is? The same! This rate was calculated by a single unified ALPA Pilot group who realized the 777 is the future and 747 is the past. Why would the UAL pilot group commit such a travesty? Could they not see what the NW pilots see, which is what exactly, that compensation should be based on seats exclusivley and not take other factors such as the newest equipment into account.? I hope not, because planes are certianly going to keep getting newer but not necessarily bigger.
And Super it was the same before the concessions. Lets face it the 747 was the biggest and best in 1970, now its just big and old. It is no longer the biggest, it doesn't fly the farthest or carry the most. In its heday it was the King, the biggest baddest thing around but then again thats when the F-4 ruled the skies.

Scoop

............

You would have a point were it not for the fact that this same pay disparity exists on the A330 as well. Also, United didn't use this pair up of different aircraft to most advantage part of the seniority list. I think it was a bad tactic involving short term thinking. If in the future we get the A380 or something like it, the company will be able to come to us and say: you should get paid the same as the 777 because it was OK for you back in 2008.

Oh well, water under the bridge now. Speaking of water, got to go do an ocean crossing now. Later.

Carl

You are right - water under the bridge. Have a good flight. :)

Scoop