How'd you do?
12-10-2008 | 06:32 AM
#11
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Joined: Apr 2008
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I (1990 DAL hire) came out within .25% of where I was pre-merger.
Under the date of hire proposal I would have been almost 1,000 numbers lower.
I'm pleased with the result, but I'm not sure about the NWA pilots around me who "lost" just over three years.
It seems the people who post on APC are generally okay with the award, but that's a very small percentage of the total combined pilot group. I'm curious if there is any group that is very upset and thinking of a lawsuit?
Under the date of hire proposal I would have been almost 1,000 numbers lower.
I'm pleased with the result, but I'm not sure about the NWA pilots around me who "lost" just over three years.
It seems the people who post on APC are generally okay with the award, but that's a very small percentage of the total combined pilot group. I'm curious if there is any group that is very upset and thinking of a lawsuit?
12-10-2008 | 07:51 AM
#12
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 26
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you still don't get it. I don't?DOH has nothing to do with how they merge lists.Nothing? I'd say the arbitrators agreed with more DALPA position than NWALPA position, but they do not agree with your statement that DOH has nothing to do with it. Have you read the entire opinion? What did you bring to the table, that's all that matters. The arbitrators do not agree with that 100%. Wouldn't you say their opinion is all that matters?My counterpart hired at NWA in Nov 96 cannot hold the same equipment I can hold. Well, you didn't say what you are holding but from looking at the list I see that DAL 11/96 hires are holding MD88A, 737A, a few 767-400B, 767ER B, and 1 777B. Guess what. The same list shows 11/96 NWA hires holding 747B, 744B, 330B and DC9A. Is that a big enough difference to justify your 15% seniority premium?
And I didn't even get into how, due to the 274 pull-n-plug being WAY below the actual upcoming attrition of NWA pilots, you will directly benefit from huge NWA retirements in the next 10 years. If you project the list into the future it is clear that DAL will hugely dominate future WB positions as a direct result of NWA retirements.
12-10-2008 | 08:04 AM
#13
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 43
From: 765A
"Look, I'm not trying to pick any fights. I'm more than willing to take the decision and move on looking forward. I just don't see how you could feel even the least bit slighted by this outcome as you have claimed. "
I don't see how many NWA guys can feel slighted, but I guess it depends on your perspective. No matter how we feel, this list is here to stay.
I think we will hear a little venting from both sides for a couple of weeks, then everyone will move on. If displacements start, look out, then you will really hear some *****ing.
I don't see how many NWA guys can feel slighted, but I guess it depends on your perspective. No matter how we feel, this list is here to stay.
I think we will hear a little venting from both sides for a couple of weeks, then everyone will move on. If displacements start, look out, then you will really hear some *****ing.
12-10-2008 | 08:34 AM
#14
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 129
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From: NWA 747-200 SO
? for the DAL guys, do you have any projections of how many Ret. you will have in the next 10-15 yrs. I haven't seen...I am asking a serious ?, there is no underlying statement.
12-10-2008 | 08:54 AM
#15
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Well, if we truly lost 55% of our list in 10-15 yrs, I would be an A320 CA or higher. Now I can only hope to be a CA on anything. And so on...That being said, I accept the list. FWIW, you were curious how I could feel that way...there you go.
? for the DAL guys, do you have any projections of how many Ret. you will have in the next 10-15 yrs. I haven't seen...I am asking a serious ?, there is no underlying statement.
? for the DAL guys, do you have any projections of how many Ret. you will have in the next 10-15 yrs. I haven't seen...I am asking a serious ?, there is no underlying statement.
I'm a NWA 96 hire. Based on that:
Next 10 years from today:
NWA Retirements(age 65): 1095
DAL Retirements (age 65): 664
Next 15 years from today:
NWA Retirements(age 65): 2466
DAL Retirements (age 65): 2639
So over the next 10 years NWA retirement runs about 1.6 NWA for every 1 DAL. Starting 10 years from now, for 5 years, DAL retires 1.4 for every 1 NWA. Obviously this assumes everyone flies to 65 and no NWA retires at 60.
12-10-2008 | 09:00 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 43
From: 765A
2008-2011 none
2012 2
2013 60
2014 75
2015 89
2016 136
2017 157
2018 218
2019 272
2020 348
2021 478
2022 567
2023 549
12-10-2008 | 10:58 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,457
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From: LAX ERA
Yup, this "it's a replacement" / "no it's new" thing was the basis of most of the red/green arbritrations. The good new is looks like Bloch may have written better than Roberts did.
Yeah, I'm on vacation when I get back from this Asia trip. Momma is gonna want me to take a break from APC too
. I was getting the little barbs about always being on the computer, like she was doing anything.Still need to call Mike S. We've swapped emails and I'll call him when I get home. Thanks again.
Ferd
12-10-2008 | 01:17 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,971
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From: Kickin’ Back
Ferd,
Yeah, I can see that argument coming too. But at least it will only last for 5 years after SOC and not the 20 years of Roberts.
Being a glass half full kinda guy (thanks Mom!
), maybe this award is written better and we wont have any major disputes......DOOH!!!! What was I thinking!!!!
Denny
Yeah, I can see that argument coming too. But at least it will only last for 5 years after SOC and not the 20 years of Roberts.
Being a glass half full kinda guy (thanks Mom!
), maybe this award is written better and we wont have any major disputes......DOOH!!!! What was I thinking!!!!Denny
12-10-2008 | 02:28 PM
#19
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Joined: Apr 2008
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I re-read the arbitrators decision and I'm confused by part of the fence wording. I'm hoping someone will clear this up for me.
Right now DAL has firm orders as well as options for 777 aircraft. I don't know the exact numbers, but IIRC those numbers are fairly significant.
As I understand the arbitrators decision, any 777 aircraft that arrive from those pre-merger orders and options will be staffed by pre-merger DAL pilots.
However, if DAL cancels their 787 orders and instead purchases 777 aircraft as replacement aircraft, those positions would be staffed by pre-merger NWA pilots.
The thing is, if DAL does cnx the 787 orders, how does one determine whether an aircraft is a replacement, or one that would have been an option that DAL decided to exercise?
Right now DAL has firm orders as well as options for 777 aircraft. I don't know the exact numbers, but IIRC those numbers are fairly significant.
As I understand the arbitrators decision, any 777 aircraft that arrive from those pre-merger orders and options will be staffed by pre-merger DAL pilots.
However, if DAL cancels their 787 orders and instead purchases 777 aircraft as replacement aircraft, those positions would be staffed by pre-merger NWA pilots.
The thing is, if DAL does cnx the 787 orders, how does one determine whether an aircraft is a replacement, or one that would have been an option that DAL decided to exercise?
12-10-2008 | 03:01 PM
#20
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 16
