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MAG 2017 TA Poll
Are you voting to pass the TA?
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89% no so far. It's a small sample size but I hope this holds. Don't cave Mesa pilots. It's not always easy to say no to more money, but sometimes it's necessary for a greater reward in the future. Look at Republic. They voted no in 2014 and had a MUCH better contract that passed in 2015.
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Well this poll is about as unscientific as it gets. From what i'm hearing on the flight line, some yes but most no. That too is quite unscientific as well.
What I have noticed is that the FO's who are able to vote are a yes. The money is enticing compared to what they are making. Captains who I have talked to are mostly a no but there are some out there that are a yes simply because they want more money before they move on. I have heard many selfish reasons for voting yes and many others who are ready to fight. Its really hard to say. I have seen some of the union guys on Facebook and in the hallways asking that we just attend the roadshows. I don't like that tone at all from them because it appears as though they might be trying to sell this thing. When you compare apples to apples with other non-wholly owned regionals, its simply doesn't add up or come really anywhere close. |
There's no point to a roadshow if you're English proficient and can read, which we should all be able to do. Went last time and listened to excuses for two hours. But hey, we got a few free quesadillas.
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Well we are all paying dues so I would hope that all Mesa pilots would take the time to attend a roadshow and get informed from the source and not from some of the crap posted here. Too many experts continually end up slowing progress and costing us all money in the end.
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The only source that matters is the document. A roadshow doesn't change the document.
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Originally Posted by mudslinger
(Post 2382719)
Well we are all paying dues so I would hope that all Mesa pilots would take the time to attend a roadshow and get informed from the source and not from some of the crap posted here. Too many experts continually end up slowing progress and costing us all money in the end.
That's how a debate works. |
Sales Meeting
I attended one of the dog and pony shows the last time. I asked why the hotel language was not stronger in the last TA compared to the contract. An ALPA attorney at the meeting told me it was not possible to have stronger language regarding hotels. He then went on to tell me that if we wanted better hotels that we should call in fatigued more often. I was shocked. That is how our union is fighting for us. The road shows do NOT do anything for us, but trying to ram this down our throats.
So if it was not possible to have stronger language in the hotel section, then why does this TA contain stronger language? The hotel language needs to be even stronger than what is in this TA. It should state that we are involved in the actual selection and approval of all hotels. This TA invites members of the hotel committee to onsite visits and allows our input. We still would not have an actual say. Also, the clause about keeping hotels until the end of the hotel contract needs to go. We have no idea how long of a contract the company has with some of these dumps. |
The debate should be with your elected reps and the negotiators that were sent in to do the job, they are our subject matter experts. Chat boards are the home to mostly "expert" opinion and far from the complete picture and real facts.
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Originally Posted by mudslinger
(Post 2383322)
The debate should be with your elected reps and the negotiators that were sent in to do the job, they are our subject matter experts. Chat boards are the home to mostly "expert" opinion and far from the complete picture and real facts.
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Originally Posted by mudslinger
(Post 2383322)
The debate should be with your elected reps and the negotiators that were sent in to do the job, they are our subject matter experts. Chat boards are the home to mostly "expert" opinion and far from the complete picture and real facts.
The fact is this TA still lags far behind the rest of the regionals. Debating the TA on here with other more experienced pilots is a good thing. Not bad like you make it out. That is how you learn. Then take that info to debate with these 3 "subject matter experts". I was at Mesa for 14 years. So I would say I have a better picture then what you have or these guys on the board do. If they had 15-20 years of experience in aviation then we could debate this but they are newbies trying to negotiate against JO who is an expert. |
Originally Posted by wt93205
(Post 2383392)
If they had 15-20 years of experience in aviation then we could debate this but they are newbies trying to negotiate against JO who is an expert. |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2383339)
Yeah, if this goes down, the rep that voted "no" to presenting this to the pilots should become the lead negotiator next time.
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Originally Posted by 20sx
(Post 2383717)
Can we also get rid of some of the reps that thought it was such a great deal and didn't want any meaningful discussion on it? Blinded by increased but still below rates....
If this goes down, then it will be a while (not a year though) before we get another vote. I can guarantee United, who would love for Mesa to be flying dozens more EJets, is watching closely. The rep who voted "no" understood it would never pass. |
Another pilots prediction
A no vote means you want the company to fold.
Ual will whipsaw the planes to another carrier and we will be on the street. It's a matter of principal to them. They've given some money and we spit in their face. They will take their ball and go home. It's mediocre money from a mediocre company. Like most I'm trying to get out before the rest of the rats are swimming in the water with me. For me it's about 20% more than I'm getting now. I was a no but I don't want 1000 pilots applying for the bottom of the list at the other regionals. Imho |
Originally Posted by Another pilot
(Post 2383796)
A no vote means you want the company to fold.
Ual will whipsaw the planes to another carrier and we will be on the street. It's a matter of principal to them. They've given some money and we spit in their face. They will take their ball and go home. It's mediocre money from a mediocre company. Like most I'm trying to get out before the rest of the rats are swimming in the water with me. For me it's about 20% more than I'm getting now. I was a no but I don't want 1000 pilots applying for the bottom of the list at the other regionals. Imho Mesa needs to add 200 net pilots and the bonuses will just get larger to attract pilots if this doesn't pass. |
Originally Posted by Another pilot
(Post 2383796)
A no vote means you want the company to fold.
Ual will whipsaw the planes to another carrier and we will be on the street. It's a matter of principal to them. They've given some money and we spit in their face. They will take their ball and go home. It's mediocre money from a mediocre company. Like most I'm trying to get out before the rest of the rats are swimming in the water with me. For me it's about 20% more than I'm getting now. I was a no but I don't want 1000 pilots applying for the bottom of the list at the other regionals. Imho I don't believe it's been confirmed by anybody that United or American offered us more money to staff, and regardless it's not spitting in their faces to refuse continuing as the lowest paid 121 jet operator in the country. Have some self respect. It's a big market, and I imagine just about every non-lifer Mesa pilot has their apps out anyway. Besides, if Mesa really got into trouble, we'd be a carrier in distress and get preferential interviews at other ALPA carriers. Alternatively, we get bought out by a place like SkyWest and go to their pay scales. I'd be fine with either scenario. |
Originally Posted by wt93205
(Post 2383392)
Are you kidding me??? The Subject matter experts are the 2 kids and 1 young adult on the negotiating board with a "complete picture and real facts"??? LOL! I watched that video they put out. They are brainwashed into thinking this is "GOOD FOR YOU". You and them are smoking some good stuff. So you are saying that because of their position they are the "experts" and basically if they say vote yes, you should vote yes. :eek:
The fact is this TA still lags far behind the rest of the regionals. Debating the TA on here with other more experienced pilots is a good thing. Not bad like you make it out. That is how you learn. Then take that info to debate with these 3 "subject matter experts". I was at Mesa for 14 years. So I would say I have a better picture then what you have or these guys on the board do. If they had 15-20 years of experience in aviation then we could debate this but they are newbies trying to negotiate against JO who is an expert. |
Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 2383950)
If Mesa went belly up, honestly, it would probably be better for the industry and the profession. Nobody is actively trying to shut it down, but if it went that way you wouldn't see many tears.
You have to have more confidence in yourself and your career than that. It's a pilot's market; 1-year FO's are getting on with Spirit. You made a post in February of '16 referring to working here. If you've been around that long, and you've been flying 26 years, I'm sure the Spirits and the Allegiants and the Frontiers would love to have you. Do you really think you'd have to start over at Envoy? I don't believe it's been confirmed by anybody that United or American offered us more money to staff, and regardless it's not spitting in their faces to refuse continuing as the lowest paid 121 jet operator in the country. Have some self respect. It's a big market, and I imagine just about every non-lifer Mesa pilot has their apps out anyway. Besides, if Mesa really got into trouble, we'd be a carrier in distress and get preferential interviews at other ALPA carriers. Alternatively, we get bought out by a place like SkyWest and go to their pay scales. I'd be fine with either scenario. SW closed the ExpressJet DTW senior base and moved it to LGA. Then, moved SW new hires into DTW. I expect they will close the DFW ExpressJet base next. If they acquired us, PHX would be the first base closed and SW pilots would just take over. |
Originally Posted by Another pilot
(Post 2383796)
A no vote means you want the company to fold.
Ual will whipsaw the planes to another carrier and we will be on the street. It's a matter of principal to them. They've given some money and we spit in their face. They will take their ball and go home. It's mediocre money from a mediocre company. Like most I'm trying to get out before the rest of the rats are swimming in the water with me. For me it's about 20% more than I'm getting now. I was a no but I don't want 1000 pilots applying for the bottom of the list at the other regionals. Imho |
Originally Posted by Tpinks
(Post 2383993)
Mesa is the cheapest regional out there and United is protecting that. Otherwise, we would have had an IAH base at republic a long time ago. The fact is, if Republic or Skywest opens up an IAH base, Mesa is all but gone without a new on par or more contract.
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You all have choices beyond yes or no. It's a good time to be a pilot.
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what date do you vote?
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Originally Posted by Another pilot
(Post 2383796)
A no vote means you want the company to fold.
Ual will whipsaw the planes to another carrier and we will be on the street. It's a matter of principal to them. They've given some money and we spit in their face. They will take their ball and go home. It's mediocre money from a mediocre company. Like most I'm trying to get out before the rest of the rats are swimming in the water with me. For me it's about 20% more than I'm getting now. I was a no but I don't want 1000 pilots applying for the bottom of the list at the other regionals. Imho One shouldn't vote "yes" to accept mediocrity just to maintain the status quo at a regional lagging in pay/benefits/work rules out of fear if they strive to be better it's the end of the company. |
I would vote NO solely on the fact of y'alls healthcare! Wake up MESA pilots!!
You have a choice to work at MESA. Work somewhere else! Vote with your feet. |
Originally Posted by C172
(Post 2384360)
I would vote NO solely on the fact of y'alls healthcare! Wake up MESA pilots!!
You have a choice to work at MESA. Work somewhere else! Vote with your feet. Healthcare is a basic requirement to gainful employment in the United States. Mesa simply avoids paying for it not only for the pilot's, but for the company as a whole. Since the company is unwilling to properly insure, then the very least they can do is compensate as average pay, not below. |
Originally Posted by Sumtinwong
(Post 2384433)
Yeah. The union says health care was low on the polling data. How did they ask? Who did they ask?
Healthcare is a basic requirement to gainful employment in the United States. Mesa simply avoids paying for it not only for the pilot's, but for the company as a whole. Since the company is unwilling to properly insure, then the very least they can do is compensate as average pay, not below. |
Originally Posted by Another pilot
(Post 2383796)
A no vote means you want the company to fold.
Ual will whipsaw the planes to another carrier and we will be on the street. It's a matter of principal to them. They've given some money and we spit in their face. They will take their ball and go home. It's mediocre money from a mediocre company. Like most I'm trying to get out before the rest of the rats are swimming in the water with me. For me it's about 20% more than I'm getting now. I was a no but I don't want 1000 pilots applying for the bottom of the list at the other regionals. Imho A no vote doesn't mean you want the company to fold, it means you expect at least an average contract commensurate with the rest of the industry. We still don't have that. In mediation, they achieved a TA within a month and a half. If we vote no and go back to mediation, we can work out another fairly quickly. The company is willing, we just need to push the negioators and MEC to accept nothing less than we deserve. Regardless of what Max said yesterday, there will not be another polling or any delays other than what the mediator thinks. No reason to be parked. Don't let fear make you a yes vote. Vote yes or no on whether you think it deserves that vote. |
Originally Posted by Sumtinwong
(Post 2384433)
Yeah. The union says health care was low on the polling data. How did they ask? Who did they ask?
Healthcare is a basic requirement to gainful employment in the United States. Mesa simply avoids paying for it not only for the pilot's, but for the company as a whole. Since the company is unwilling to properly insure, then the very least they can do is compensate as average pay, not below. These so called polls did not allow us to truly state what our pilot group needs. These were done in a manner that the union can now say, "We heard heard you and negotiated for what you wanted" |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2383865)
That could be. UAL also doesn't want all their eggs in the SW basket or SW would already be in IAH. SW is the only regional with surplus Ejet pilots other than the wholly owned regionals. You could be at SW where a first year Ejet FO is lucky to get 400 hours. At least, we build our time toward our next job.
Mesa needs to add 200 net pilots and the bonuses will just get larger to attract pilots if this doesn't pass. |
Originally Posted by deltajuliet
(Post 2383950)
If Mesa went belly up, honestly, it would probably be better for the industry and the profession. Nobody is actively trying to shut it down, but if it went that way you wouldn't see many tears.
You have to have more confidence in yourself and your career than that. It's a pilot's market; 1-year FO's are getting on with Spirit. You made a post in February of '16 referring to working here. If you've been around that long, and you've been flying 26 years, I'm sure the Spirits and the Allegiants and the Frontiers would love to have you. Do you really think you'd have to start over at Envoy? I don't believe it's been confirmed by anybody that United or American offered us more money to staff, and regardless it's not spitting in their faces to refuse continuing as the lowest paid 121 jet operator in the country. Have some self respect. It's a big market, and I imagine just about every non-lifer Mesa pilot has their apps out anyway. Besides, if Mesa really got into trouble, we'd be a carrier in distress and get preferential interviews at other ALPA carriers. Alternatively, we get bought out by a place like SkyWest and go to their pay scales. I'd be fine with either scenario. |
Originally Posted by CWHCFI
(Post 2384659)
The union did a couple of polls. However, the wording in these polls made it impossible to actually determine what the pilot group wanted. Questions were written like the following example, "Which is more important, pay or insurance?"
These so called polls did not allow us to truly state what our pilot group needs. These were done in a manner that the union can now say, "We heard heard you and negotiated for what you wanted" |
Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2384015)
SW never closed their IAH CRJ base. They will have no trouble picking up our Ejet flying there. SW is also making noise about making a play for our DFW CRJ flying. SW won't need to buy Mesa --- at this point, they just need to wait for AA or UA to drop us and pick up the flying.
If Republic or SkyWest were to open an 170/175 IAH base with additional non-Mesa aircraft, it would cannibalize Mesa there. |
Originally Posted by word302
(Post 2384742)
Meh. Just talked to a guy that got 750 his first year. Facts ya know.
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Originally Posted by Tpinks
(Post 2385086)
Your comparing two different fleets though. SW's IAH Crj's are not competing against MESA's Crj's for IAH flying. The two bases can co exist as they have different purposes.
If Republic or SkyWest were to open an 170/175 IAH base with additional non-Mesa aircraft, it would cannibalize Mesa there. SW is waiting for us to fail at IAH. If UAL gives them a chance, they will cannibalize us just like they are ExpressJet. They have 200 extra Ejet pilots (CA's and FO's) waiting to come to whatever SW's next growth base is. SW won't even have to buy us. |
Vote No
The booth is open boys and girls. Go push that No button.
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When are the results released?
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Voting ends 10 a.m. ET on July 12. We'll probably hear the results that afternoon.
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Originally Posted by calmwinds
(Post 2385162)
I know less about Republic - just their lengthy upgrade times as published. Bunch of friends at SkyWest. They are encouraging me to go there. Good bases. Good QOL. I plan to be at SWA before going there though - SWA is hiring 800 FO's this year.
SW is waiting for us to fail at IAH. If UAL gives them a chance, they will cannibalize us just like they are ExpressJet. They have 200 extra Ejet pilots (CA's and FO's) waiting to come to whatever SW's next growth base is. SW won't even have to buy us. Theres a reason they are hiring 800 FO's. Those guys work long hard days. I can understand a regional guy wanting to do SWA, Spirit, Frontier, etc. It's what you know, but with much better work rules, and QOL. I always said that I could never do long haul. After doing it, I would never want to do anything else. I hope you get on with SWA if that's what you want to do. My point is that you truly don't know what's best for you, until you sample it all. You might surprise yourself. |
Great discussions
I Really appreciate so many great opinions on this particular thread not personal bashing, politics or attitude. I've learned a lot from all the responses thank you. I'm going to take into consideration all of them before I cast my vote. I've talk to the union reps, i've been to the dog and pony show and I'm wavering however I will make a decision soon. Thanks you for your input
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