Don’t get too comfortable on the ejet side. Earnings call explained that we are challenged getting financing for even 10 of the 175s. The only deal to fly the 700s as 550s for United is in JO’s mind. 2 AA 900s that expired in January were removed early. 47 more expire between Feb 2021 and Dec 2023. Waiting for AA to determine their fleet size going forward before any potential extension - but “we think we remain important”. No mention of downsizing the 900 to 67 seats this time. At least Mesa is doing their part to meet scope.

The mentioned no furloughs but without a PSP extension from the government we are relying on REDUCED CREDIT - if pilots don’t give on that then expect the furloughs and downgrades. It was a message both to labor and the government. We might make it to January but once the 900s start to go the furloughs are coming. There’s some myopia in this pilot group thinking that if you are on the united side you’ll be ok. Not so. If I get displaced from my CRJ I’ll go to the Ejet as a CA and cause a downgrade potentially. That’s how seniority works. We need to do something on the AA side of the house or we are all in deep **** come 2022.

Your facts are in error. We DEFERRED a bunch of debt payments. They are due as a LUMP SUM Sept 30. That’s not paying down debt and we are attempting to finance 10 ejets and that’s not either. Also cash on hand went up 10 million, not 40.

If it comes to that, United has paid for the initial E175 type ratings, they WON'T pay displacement ratings. I'm pretty sure about that.

Does Mesa want this mess and pay for that? J.O. either break the contact (I think that's been done in the past), or files another bankruptcy to restructure the company in his favor.

Fingers crossed, right?

i don’t think this could be more incorrect. I’ve never heard of, or at least don’t remember, any ALPA represented company not furloughing, downgrading and displacing out of seniority order. Yet another reason that seniority is important at any airline - even Mesa. This is a major problem at any airline with multiple fleet types when it comes to furloughs.

On the bright side if the company furloughs, it will be a minimum of pilots to avoid/minimize this very thing. if I things bad enough I’ll be headed to IAH with a bunch of other displaced CRJ guys. I sure hope it doesn’t happen - I like 900.

But you would have to wait until the last CRJ left the American side correct. That's a few years down the road. It stays 1:1 unless your totally displaced. Just asking. I think AA will downsize but not go away

If you have 200 too many in the AA side you can’t just let them go. You do a displacement bid with the new fleet requirements. It goes by seniority. It was alluded to by the company when we accepted the 20 Ejets that displacements might have to happen. Then Covid. But if one side or the other shrinks and we have a surplus they furlough the bottom - not just the surplus side - and retrain as necessary.

You guys still paying 300% for Opentime ?

That’s long gone.

So do we think no news on furloughs is “good news”? I’m one of those new hires furloughed out of training and am just curious what the word on the street is these days.

In a cadet an just got my transition letter to FO an was told to be ready within 10 days of being called. Recruitment is back in the office [emoji2377]


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JO wants to be ready to pick up the scraps of whatever is left of the industry after this. Doesn’t want to be caught with his pants down, better to have pilots on hand then to struggle to staff if something rather large becomes available.

I hate to be that guy but unless something drastic happens were still looking like we will be furloughing guys. Email got sent out not too long ago there wouldn't be enough furloughs to warrant WARN notices but I would be very very surprised if we don't furlough. The only hope would be getting assigned more UA flying and being able to convert 700's to 550's. Currently that would be the only saving grace. That or things start to drastically pick up.

i think the 550 flying is exactly what’s happening.

The latest I was told is that the CRJ 1 for 1 isn’t happening they’re keeping them an still getting the 20 erjs so the likelihood of furlough is non exsistant.


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This is gonna take time to spool up.

That is not what we are being told. But then again we were told WARN notices were being sent.

And now we're being told they don't have to send warn notices to furlough. I'm not sure management knows what's going on.

The only penalty for not sending warn notices is 60 days pay.

There are exceptions to the warn act, they believe that if they have to they will be within those exceptions. Basically either less then 50 people or between 50-500 as long as it less then 33% of employees at any one site, or for less then 6 months. So yes you absolutely can furlough without putting out a WARN notice. If you believe that you have to send a WARN act notice to furlough anyone you are extremely mistaken.

The 6 month duration requirement is wrong. There’s no minimum duration. The only 6 month references I can find is they are not required for employees who do not have 6 months longevity and there’s a note that says over 6 months is considered a permanent job loss. There’s nothing that says they are not required if the expected duration is under 6 months — that I can find. Please provide a reference.

the 6 months is the maximum for greater then those numbers without notification. As in the company could in theory furlough an unlimited number of employees without notification given that the intended layoff was for no more then 6 months. Read it for yourself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work...on_Act_of_1988

I’m currently looking for where wiki got that in an actual legal document, I’ll post it when I find it.

I could make the argument that pilots work under 20 hours per week:

“Generally, the WARN Act covers employers with 100 or more employees, not counting those who have worked fewer than six months in the last twelve-month work period, or those who work an average of less than 20 hours a week.” From your Wikipedia link. I found the 6 month duration but I can’t find any independent reference but I guess we will know Sept 15th!

I’m currently reading through a Cornell Law copy of the Law, and the 6 months seams to have something to do with it being considered as an “employment loss” as far as what that has to do with notification I’m still trying to dig around for, because right now I’m not seeing anything that makes notification or anything at all really different between the two.

As far as the 20 hours per week I’d imagine that duty time is what you need to be looking at there and not credit time. In that case pretty much all of us are around 35-40 hours a week. Time required to
be at work is work, irregardless if paid or not.

Sadly I think Wikipedia is wrong on the 6 month thing but do I think Mesa would use Wikipedia for their legal reference? Well ....

Haha, with legal council from the stoner that once did a week and a half of internship at one of those personal injury law firms that screams through their commercials. “I’m Jim Adler, the Texas Hammer!”

https://youtu.be/q67cD8pDgqk

Thanks terks for "schooling" me, I get it. But that didn't stop the same management a few weeks ago from warning the union there would be WARN letters. And now they realize they don't have to.

It wouldn't make sense financially to furlough short term for that 6 month period anyway at least I wouldn't think so. If they furlough I would assume it would be for over a year as a minimum to make financial sense to the bean counters.

Uh.... it’s Mesa.

This is true lol.

You never know with Mesa they flush probably hundreds of thousands of dollars down the toilet on unused Sim time and refuse to fire the person doing it.

You left out the part where they lost the previous person doing it that actually knew what she was doing because they refused to give her a pay raise and her replacement immediately lost 6 figures in unused, but already paid for, sim time.

damn shame cuz she was the best

TM? Is TM the old one, new one or neither?

K is the old one who did the schedules when we went from 500ish pilots to 1300 plus.

Schedules out, 20 days off, 55 credit. Life is good.

This month. Oct is downgrade time based on the rejection of the MOU resurrection.

Wouldn’t be surprised, but this is the first I’ve heard of downgrades. Have you heard any numbers?

Yeah - KG was and still is the best we ever had. I say Hi every time I'm in the SIM center.

Glad that MOU was put down for good.

So am I. Who was responsible for putting it down?