Did you ever figure this out? Currently doing cpat and it's hours and hours of boring work. Do I really need to know all these small details in the cpat, or is the 71 page study guide enough for the oral (only systems wise, which is what the cpat focuses on)

 

I found the study guide paired with the systems manual to be sufficient for the oral.

 

Awesome because this cpat thing is really killing me.

I like the information laid out in the study guide much more. I'll take a look at the systems manual.

 

Did you ever find out the answer to this. Did they change it? Am I fine knowing only FO flows or MUST I know CA flows as well? For ejet.

 

Random thoughts that go together...

"How can I get away with doing the bare minimum?"

"Must I learn the captain flows?"

"I don't want to do any more than I absolutely have to."

"Let me show you what I'm made of."

"This is really, really hard. It's not like a Cessna."

"I want my mommy."

 

Nice post, Mr. Burke. You put a serious observation in humorous form.

It's reasonable to ask where someone should focus their efforrts, but some folks take "minimalism" too far.

 

On day one as a new hire, conversation in the class began with introductions, and in short order the subject of upgrades came up. Someone quipped that it wouldn't be an issue for a few years. I pointed out that today was day one of upgrade class. The company didn't hire first officers; just captains who had to wait a little until seniority allowed.

My sim partner didn't want to bother to learn the captain flows. We did our training in four hour blocks; two hours in the right seat, two hours in the left. Although we'd be going on the line as a first officer, we had to do left-seat duty while our sim partner sweated in the right seat. My sim partner saw no point in learning the duties, flows, callouts for the captain. He was going to be in the right seat, after all. He only focused on the first officer checklist responses. He didn't bother with anything other than the minimum.

He didn't make it through OE. He wasn't a lot different than one or two others who didn't last, and who didn't want to put in the effort.

I've seen many, upon arriving at class or the sim for their captain upgrade, who wanted to know what they shoud start studying.

The time to do that was day one, in initial.

A golden opprotunity lost.

It's a lot easier to do one's job in the right seat if one is familiar with the left, and part of the duty in the right seat is to observe the captain and know if all is well, if steps are skipped, things are missed. It's hard to do that if one doesn't know what the captain is doing over there. Learn those flows. There are things the captain does that trigger actions by the first officer, and things the first officer must do before the captain can do his flows. What's he looking for? What should you be looking for?

For the lazy direct-entry captain: know the F/O's job, too: the flows, the call-outs, the works. It goes both ways.

 

This comment makes sense. I only have a month to study. I want to know what I MUST know. Not what is recommended to know. I will learn as time goes on, on the line. And this is not to say I will throw CA flows in the garbage if not needed. But I am really time limited and as of now, I only would like to know what I must for the checkride. All the other stuff, I will have hundreds of hours to master flying the line. With the limited time I have I would like to focus my studies on what is absolutely necessary... FOR NOW.

 

Here’s a short to the point answer someone could’ve said without needing to be condescending.

No you don’t NEED to know CA flows

Yes it would help during SIT and sims but you’re not being evaluated on it. The CA flow items are literally only the lights, sterile switch, hydraulic pump and TOGA button. It’ll come second nature during the sims to speed things up.

 

Simple questions that should give you the answer you seek. Are you receiving a PIC or SIC type rating? Do you expect your new hire partner to support you when they are in the right seat? If it is a PIC type, your type ride is in the left seat. It is actually the FO flows that you can only be very familiar with.