Military Pilot needs help!
02-23-2008 | 05:52 AM
#11
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SWA guys work hard but 99% of those that I know love it there.
Being a pilot is not the healthiest lifestyle regardless...I think we can all admit that.
Salty Dog...there is no shame in being a freight dog! I flew night cargo (in a Falcon 20..in fact..some old FedEx birds!) and I was proud of my freight dog status...and it made me a better pilot.
02-23-2008 | 06:01 AM
#12
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Joined: Jul 2007
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All three are great companies and anyone would be doing well to get on with any of them.
I now can live just about anywhere and still NOT "commute", make good money (never what a UPS or FedEx will make), have good benefits, decent retirement, great QOL, flying brand new airplanes...life for me is good.
02-23-2008 | 06:15 AM
#13
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Look, each to his own...every pilot finds a way to make their own job work for them. The gig here at UPS is obviously different from the experience you had at your previous cargo job.
B2P
02-23-2008 | 01:39 PM
#14
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
I just separated yesterday after 11 years, all in the C-17. I start training at CAL in another couple weeks.
I have tons of buddies at SWA, everyone I know loves it. From what I can tell (all second hand knowledge), SWA has very good scheduling, ability to drop trips and pick up open time at 2nd year pay. Most of them have been able to make about $55-85k their first year. None of my buddies have complained about the up & down legs. One of my friends has been there ab out 1.5 years and averages about 6-8 nights away from home per month by bidding out & back flights.
The downside of SWA is that hiring has stagnated, meaning that until things pick up, it'll be longer on reserve, and longer at Oakland. I've heard that there's about 300 or so in the pool, and about 350 or projected class slots this year, so they won't be picking up many new hires off the street.
As for me, I chose CAL because I can live in my USAF Reserve base and live within a reasonable drive of EWR. CAL's hiring has slowed, but I should be off reserve within a couple of months.
Avoid a double commute if at all possible.
I have tons of buddies at SWA, everyone I know loves it. From what I can tell (all second hand knowledge), SWA has very good scheduling, ability to drop trips and pick up open time at 2nd year pay. Most of them have been able to make about $55-85k their first year. None of my buddies have complained about the up & down legs. One of my friends has been there ab out 1.5 years and averages about 6-8 nights away from home per month by bidding out & back flights.
The downside of SWA is that hiring has stagnated, meaning that until things pick up, it'll be longer on reserve, and longer at Oakland. I've heard that there's about 300 or so in the pool, and about 350 or projected class slots this year, so they won't be picking up many new hires off the street.
As for me, I chose CAL because I can live in my USAF Reserve base and live within a reasonable drive of EWR. CAL's hiring has slowed, but I should be off reserve within a couple of months.
Avoid a double commute if at all possible.
02-23-2008 | 03:40 PM
#15
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Spartan
Yeah, scientists...I forget...are eggs good or bad for us this year?
As a junior guy coming to an end of year 1 at Brown, I've flown approximately 75% day trips. I was more tired as a commuter guy with 6-9 legs a day and 0430 hotel vans to the airport than almost every trip I've done here. It should only get better with seniority(theoretically).
To each his own, I wouldn't trade it for anything.
As a junior guy coming to an end of year 1 at Brown, I've flown approximately 75% day trips. I was more tired as a commuter guy with 6-9 legs a day and 0430 hotel vans to the airport than almost every trip I've done here. It should only get better with seniority(theoretically).
To each his own, I wouldn't trade it for anything.
02-23-2008 | 05:51 PM
#16
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: DA-40
My first thread and it will be obvious.
My background is I am a C-17 guy with 3000 total, 1300 PIC and I have 14 months until I can get out of the AF. I have taken my ATP written and will probably take my FE written next week.
I basically have a ton of questions about how and where to start my new life. Below are the questions I have, if you guys have time to take a look and answer a few I would be grateful.
1. Southwest seems like such a great place to go (assuming they are hiring) but all my friends at other airlines say that the up and down sorties and quantity of sorties will kill me. Any Southwest guys have anything to say about that?
Southwest IS a really good place to go. From what I've seen (I'm not SW) many guys that aren't there say that there are too many legs. And just about all SWA guys say that they can handle it just fine.
2. What is a typical day at FedEx or UPS (assuming they are hiring) like? I know it isn't all night flying, but can anyone give me an example of a typical day? Is there such a thing?There is no such thing as a "typical" day at Fedex. There is a vast amount of varying schedules. There is all day flying available, all night, mixed, mixed day night within trips, all domestic, all international, etc. It's not all night flying but you will fly at night at times. You will fly less at FedEx (block hours) per year than just about all passenger carriers but pay hours are comparable.
3. For the cargo guys, do you spend a lot of time sitting overseas? Reserve?
4. For Fedex, where the hell is Subic Bay? Do all the new guys get stuck there?Man, you MUST be young. A MAC guy oops sorry AMC guy and you don't know where Clark AB and Subic are... have I been out that long? Seriously, Subic is closing for FedEx and you can't get "stuck" there. You can't get "stuck" overseas at FedEx---unless you are a new hire and that is the only openings.
5. For any airline/cargo where do your new guys get stuck? How long does it take to be able to hold somewhere else, where would that be?You have to research each company for this question. This is going to be varied for each company and only a "snapshot" at that moment.
6. Are the guaranteed minimums on airlinepilotcentral.com accurate for hours? Is the pay accurate? Airlinepilotcentral seems to be very accurate for the companies that I have researched. Data is pretty much spot on . Remember though that there can be wide swings in the guarantees depending on whether you pick up flying, trade with people drop flying etc. The Guarantee is what the company builds schedules to...depending on the company, you can change it sometimes greatly. And you are paid accordingly.
7. For any ex-military guys, was there anything that surprised you or that you didn't think about as you made the switch? Taxes bite a LOT harder than you can ever expect. You get quite a bit of breaks in the military. Depending on your company, health care costs can bite hard (if you don't have a good plan in the contract). Also, remember you'll need additional insurance too (disability, etc that was free in the military).
8. This might be obvious, but if I live at my domicile is there a chance some trips end up back there so I get an extra night at home during a trip? Can happen depending on the company.
I guess that is enough for now, I don't want to overload the thread. Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated, please add comments or questions of things you think I should be thinking about if I didn't list it.
My background is I am a C-17 guy with 3000 total, 1300 PIC and I have 14 months until I can get out of the AF. I have taken my ATP written and will probably take my FE written next week.
I basically have a ton of questions about how and where to start my new life. Below are the questions I have, if you guys have time to take a look and answer a few I would be grateful.
1. Southwest seems like such a great place to go (assuming they are hiring) but all my friends at other airlines say that the up and down sorties and quantity of sorties will kill me. Any Southwest guys have anything to say about that?
Southwest IS a really good place to go. From what I've seen (I'm not SW) many guys that aren't there say that there are too many legs. And just about all SWA guys say that they can handle it just fine.
2. What is a typical day at FedEx or UPS (assuming they are hiring) like? I know it isn't all night flying, but can anyone give me an example of a typical day? Is there such a thing?There is no such thing as a "typical" day at Fedex. There is a vast amount of varying schedules. There is all day flying available, all night, mixed, mixed day night within trips, all domestic, all international, etc. It's not all night flying but you will fly at night at times. You will fly less at FedEx (block hours) per year than just about all passenger carriers but pay hours are comparable.
3. For the cargo guys, do you spend a lot of time sitting overseas? Reserve?
4. For Fedex, where the hell is Subic Bay? Do all the new guys get stuck there?Man, you MUST be young. A MAC guy oops sorry AMC guy and you don't know where Clark AB and Subic are... have I been out that long? Seriously, Subic is closing for FedEx and you can't get "stuck" there. You can't get "stuck" overseas at FedEx---unless you are a new hire and that is the only openings.
5. For any airline/cargo where do your new guys get stuck? How long does it take to be able to hold somewhere else, where would that be?You have to research each company for this question. This is going to be varied for each company and only a "snapshot" at that moment.
6. Are the guaranteed minimums on airlinepilotcentral.com accurate for hours? Is the pay accurate? Airlinepilotcentral seems to be very accurate for the companies that I have researched. Data is pretty much spot on . Remember though that there can be wide swings in the guarantees depending on whether you pick up flying, trade with people drop flying etc. The Guarantee is what the company builds schedules to...depending on the company, you can change it sometimes greatly. And you are paid accordingly.
7. For any ex-military guys, was there anything that surprised you or that you didn't think about as you made the switch? Taxes bite a LOT harder than you can ever expect. You get quite a bit of breaks in the military. Depending on your company, health care costs can bite hard (if you don't have a good plan in the contract). Also, remember you'll need additional insurance too (disability, etc that was free in the military).
8. This might be obvious, but if I live at my domicile is there a chance some trips end up back there so I get an extra night at home during a trip? Can happen depending on the company.
I guess that is enough for now, I don't want to overload the thread. Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated, please add comments or questions of things you think I should be thinking about if I didn't list it.
02-24-2008 | 08:29 AM
#17
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: New Hire
Thanks for all the info so far guys, before I start my next comment I want to make sure everyone knows how humble I am. After reading my first post I didn't want anyone to get the impression that I thought getting a job outside of the AF was going to be easy, I will be happy to get a job period with any company.
One of my problems is that it seems like everyone likes who they work for (or say they do) and they all have very convincing arguments on why their company or flying schedule is the best.
Being a AF cargo guy I am no stranger to flying long trips at night. I'd probably say at least half of my military flying has been at night, and I have to say when I get home from a trip at least the next day and most of the time to following day too is pretty rough. At the same time doing 6 legs in one fly period, which I have never done, seems pretty rough to.
One more question, why don't more guys live at their domicile? It seems like not many guys do and it seems like it gives you extra days at home?
Oh ya and Riddler I immediately recognized your screen picture, pretty cool!
One of my problems is that it seems like everyone likes who they work for (or say they do) and they all have very convincing arguments on why their company or flying schedule is the best.
Being a AF cargo guy I am no stranger to flying long trips at night. I'd probably say at least half of my military flying has been at night, and I have to say when I get home from a trip at least the next day and most of the time to following day too is pretty rough. At the same time doing 6 legs in one fly period, which I have never done, seems pretty rough to.
One more question, why don't more guys live at their domicile? It seems like not many guys do and it seems like it gives you extra days at home?
Oh ya and Riddler I immediately recognized your screen picture, pretty cool!
02-24-2008 | 08:56 AM
#18
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Obscure? Ok......name a scientist that would not fit in this description...according your definition. Is Stephen Hawking obscure?
And the fact that you put scientist in quotations...indicates your distaste (or lack of respect) for them....so what makes a scientist a scientist? Education, experience, experimentation in an controlled and uncontrolled environment, years of research? Would you put the scientist and engineers who developed.....let's say for example...maybe stealth technology...in "quotations"...or would you respect them for keeping your billion+ dollar jet semi-invisible? I would say the B2 is an example of science and technology coming together to make a "unique" airplane to say the least.
Also, your "personal" experience does substitute or throw out reams of data taken over the course of years and countless hours of study and research. There will always be "exceptions" to any study...and you more than likely know that...maybe not.
Just because YOUR personal experience says otherwise does not mean everyone will enjoy the same level of achievement in defeating the effects of a constant assault on circadian rhythms. If someone were to approach you and say "I smoke crack everyday and feel zero effects from it so you should be cool too.." would you start smoking crack? I mean research says its bad for you but what do those people know. They are just "scientist" after all.
As for my cargo experience relative to UPS, we flew freight (maybe before you were there) for UPS and worked the same hours. It was tough... We also had plenty of rest...it was still tough.
Enjoy the job...UPS is a great company.
And the fact that you put scientist in quotations...indicates your distaste (or lack of respect) for them....so what makes a scientist a scientist? Education, experience, experimentation in an controlled and uncontrolled environment, years of research? Would you put the scientist and engineers who developed.....let's say for example...maybe stealth technology...in "quotations"...or would you respect them for keeping your billion+ dollar jet semi-invisible? I would say the B2 is an example of science and technology coming together to make a "unique" airplane to say the least.
Also, your "personal" experience does substitute or throw out reams of data taken over the course of years and countless hours of study and research. There will always be "exceptions" to any study...and you more than likely know that...maybe not.
Just because YOUR personal experience says otherwise does not mean everyone will enjoy the same level of achievement in defeating the effects of a constant assault on circadian rhythms. If someone were to approach you and say "I smoke crack everyday and feel zero effects from it so you should be cool too.." would you start smoking crack? I mean research says its bad for you but what do those people know. They are just "scientist" after all.
As for my cargo experience relative to UPS, we flew freight (maybe before you were there) for UPS and worked the same hours. It was tough... We also had plenty of rest...it was still tough.
Enjoy the job...UPS is a great company.
02-24-2008 | 09:13 AM
#19
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From: New Hire
How much pull do people actually have?
One more thought...as I talk to my buddies at different companies they all say "ya man when you are ready let me know and I'll get you in." My question is how much pull does a pilot actually have at a company in regards to helping a buddy get an interview? I guess it depends on how long they have been there? Who they know at the company? How would they even go about "helping me".
02-24-2008 | 09:25 AM
#20
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Joined: Dec 2005
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One more thought...as I talk to my buddies at different companies they all say "ya man when you are ready let me know and I'll get you in." My question is how much pull does a pilot actually have at a company in regards to helping a buddy get an interview? I guess it depends on how long they have been there? Who they know at the company? How would they even go about "helping me".
There are a handful of guys out there who are on very good terms with the right HR personnel and can get your app moved to the top of the stack fairly easily. However, in all reality, these folks are probably few and far between.
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