And this is based on what observations? Your particular class? Were you a UPT instructor? I agree it probably saved on a small number of washouts, but you make it sound like it's a huge number. Got any data on washout rates pre-SUPT vs post-SUPT?

 

finished bottom of my class in tweets - finished 4th overall in T-38s, was told a lot of guys who couldn't understand the tweet went on to rock the 38 - lucky for me my choice heavy was available and didn't have to learn how to drink the weed and act like a 17 year old for the next 10 years of my life - not that there is anything wrong with that and no offense

 

You might be right but I'm going to go ahead and call bullsh!t anyway. I went through SUPT when it was still new, many of my buds went through UPT. And, surprise surprise, they had exactly the same washout rate we did. As a Tweet FAIP many of the older IPs had been there before the Tone arrived, they said washout rate was the same before and after.

The main point of the Tone wasn't to save weak swimmers, it was to save hours on the 38 fleet after the AF decided to keep it forever. An added advantage was to train crew concept earlier to guys going to crew aircraft.

There may have been a conspiracy to save weak swimmers but like all successful conspiracys it was kept hidden till you revealed it.

There was a rumor pushed around, mainly by the 38 crowd, that you couldn't wash out of tones. It died out about the time people realized the failure rate in phase three was the same in both 38s and Tones (very very small, but there). In my class the only phase three washout was in Tones, though the bottom 38 guy got a Viper and didn't make it.

I've known enough guys like liftr to know that Tweet performance doesn't necessarily accurately predict 38 (or 1) results. If it makes you feel better to think that 38 guys are somehow better, have at it. Doesn't match my experience of 3 years teaching Tweets, or 8 years since but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

And stink, G/D tooey. Sing one drink one, hoogh. Here's to chicks with small craniums...

T-Bone, how's that one go? "I pulled down her..."

Going to Australia in the fall to drink Australian Weed and act like a 17 year old with them. Also, we're going to do ILSs and steep turns with their weapons school. Should be fun.

 

No conspiracies and no need to get your panties in a wad. I never said 38 guys are better, I only said weak swimmers are sometimes pushed through because they won't be flying alone. Most all T-1 studs could fly 38's too. But there have been weak Tone studs that wouldn't have wings if it weren't for the split track.... As for washout 'rates' they as you know vary by the needs of the AF at any given time during a training cycle.

 

We spent a total of 10 minutes in a mission brief talking about ground ops, take-off, enroute, RTB and landing. Some call that a "mission"........ we called it "admin".

 

If that's all you're doing, then everyone can do it in 10 mins. Leaves alot more time for a BX run to eat and do a shelf check before you have to step. If you're doing something between takeoff and landing, it takes a little longer. Of course, most other platforms do more than one thing everytime they fly so briefs can take a little longer....I imagine briefing 4v4 (actually launching half that number) every time you fly would make things go a little quicker.

 

I wear boxers thanks.

I stand by my post, it reflects 4+ years in AETC and 8 more flying heavies.

What did you use to derive your weak swimmer theory?

 

Not to mention Luke.

Haven't seen him in a few years but last I heard he was a D.O. Did okay where he ended up.

 

SUPT washout rates have a lot more to do with the objectives of the AETC leadership than anything relating to student performance.

SUPT leaders are measured by their pass rates in SUPT. This leads to things like students who are re-instated by CRBs 2 and 3 times after failed 89s. We had a kid go through IFF who had washed out of Vance so many times that he had to be re-instated at Columbus because the Wing CC felt he could no longer get a "fair shake" at Vance!!!

Yeah, no kidding. Washing out three times tends to make IPs, Squadron Sups, Check pilots, etc, think that you don't belong there.