Is it too late for me to be a fighter pilot?
 

My background: Dad is a very senior American Airlines captain, no prior military exp. He has taught me everything thus far. I am 18 with over 200 hours and an instrument rating. I am going to a 4 year university next year as a freshman for their flight program to get a degree, or at least thats the plan.

What I want to know: Is it to late for me to be a fighter pilot? I feel embarrassed to be asking because I know nothing about the military.

All I know is that being a fighter pilot has got to be the most amazing feeling in the world. Just give me some advice or helpful suggestions. I don't even know what branch you would want to join to fly fighters or bombers, which is why I need help.

How do I become one?

Thanks!

Well, since the Air Force is the only service that flies true bombers you may want to look there. Does the school you are planning to attend have AFROTC? You need to ask the Air Force ROTC folks a lot of questions.

If your father is in this industry why in the heck is he encouraging you to get an aviation degree? Why not get training in a field that you can use as a fallback if you fail the medical or decide you don't like flying? That's the greatest thing about the military is the stability of it and the variety of things you can do as a pilot.

forgot to mention that I'm double majoring in marketing. He hated the thought of me majoring in just aviation.

Spend the next 4 years studying your brains out and graduate with a 3.7 or better. Also during the next 4 years spend a bunch of time researching ANG and AF reserve fighter squadrons. Contact the squadrons that interest you and bug them about a job.

Don't bother with ROTC or active duty. The best deal out there is getting hired by the guard or reserve, they will send you to Officer Training School (12 weeks), you'll then go to pilot training, fighter training, and then you will back with your guard or reserve unit full-time for a year or two, then you'll transition to part-time if you so wish.

The guard and reserve hire college grads off the street and send them through training all of the time. There is no better way to become a military pilot.

The Navy and Marine Corps may have a similar program, I don't know. Any input Navy and Marine bros?

Good Luck,

Buzz

"The guard and reserve hire college grads off the street and send them through training all of the time. There is no better way to become a military pilot.

The Navy and Marine Corps may have a similar program, I don't know. Any input Navy and Marine bros?"

Since it is the way that I went - I don't have anything against the Active Duty route. And as far as I know the Navy and Marines don't have any similar training tracks. If you want to land on aircraft carriers or be one of 'The Few and The Proud' (and land on aircraft carriers) - you're going to have to sign on the dotted line at some point, be a military officer on active duty for some amount of time, take all the goods and bads that come with that committment to serve your country, and experience some of the most incredible flying you could imagine - no matter what your community!

USMCFLYR

Too late to be a fighter pilot??? More like you couldn't be in a better position. You have a ton of options. You could do ROTC (Air Force or Navy), you could wait until you graduate and go through OTS/OCS, or the route I would recommend is stay in school, get excellent grades, work on getting your commercial rating and instructor rating and get a job as a part time CFI while in school to build up some hours.

When you are getting close to graduating from college start applying/interviewing at guard units. Once you graduate, if you haven't been hired yet by a guard/reserve unit, get hired by a regional airline, keep trying to get hired by a guard unit. Once you get hired, take military leave from the regional airline (and your seniority keeps on going) and after two years of military pilot training you go back to the regional, with better pay/seniority. Then you fly fighter planes on the weekend and people movers on the weekday. By the way, what university are you planning on attending?

By the way, the age cutoff for being a pilot in the Air Force is 30 years old by the time you start pilot training, and i even met a guy who was 33 with a waiver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buzz (Post 414150)

Spend the next 4 years studying your brains out and graduate with a 3.7 or better. Also during the next 4 years spend a bunch of time researching ANG and AF reserve fighter squadrons. Contact the squadrons that interest you and bug them about a job.

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Oops - Magnum beat me to the punch and we have similar opinions on a few things - can't hurt to hear it twice. Great minds think alike. :D

Generally good advice from Buzz. However, a few cautions and a little realism are in order:

1 - Guard / Reserve units have been on the chopping block lately. The fighter unit you manage to schmooze a job from at age 22-23 may be flying UAVs, heavies or closed down completely 5 or 10 years down the road. Getting your foot in the door and into the “Guard family” may be worth risking this. However, it’s not as stable an environment as it used to be. Moving every 3-ish years and possibly changing aircraft are part of active duty life, but lately G/R units aren’t exempt from some level of uncertainty either.

2 – Returning to your Guard/Reserve unit from UPT, fighter training, survival school, etc. and going part time after only 1-2 years might be possible but it’s not the best plan. A new fighter pilot who has a grand total of 1-2 years flying that fighter is not going to be proficient enough to go part time, IMO.

3 – There is no better way to become a military pilot BUT there is no more competitive way to become a military pilot too. If you look at how many pilots are hired off the street into G/R flying units each year across the U.S. you will be looking at maybe 100-ish people per year. Ruling out active duty options completely is not smart if your ultimate goal is a spot in a military cockpit. Keep your options open and don’t burn bridges.

Good Luck.

I too would have once said to try the guard/reserve squadron thing. No, you cannot do that with the Navy or Marines though. Navy and Marine reserve squadrons only take previously qualified guys and usually only if they have been previously qualified in that airplane. Fighter reserve squadrons anyway.

It wouldn't hurt to hit up guard/reserve squadrons while at college and see how it works out, it just might. That would be the BEST route in terms of possible lifestyle. If it does, great and if two years later it is BRAC'd then you could try going active duty since you are already qualified.

But the way to have the BEST shot at actually getting to fly fighters is to go active Navy or Air Force. ROTC or OCS is the way to go for ease of life instead of doing the academy thing. However, being from an academy opens doors if you ever get out of the flying industry like I am strongly considering. If you get fighters in the Navy you'll be flying some flavor of the F/A-18 and possibly the F-35 down the road. Very nice jets. If you get fighters in the AF you have a few more options, some not as fancy, but some more fancy.

good luck

"If you get fighters in the Navy you'll be flying some flavor of the F/A-18 and possibly the F-35 down the road. "

Nothing more fancy than the F-35 ;)
Now it becomes what flavor of F-35 do you want!

USMCFLYR

One thing I can say about doing the ROTC route is that I really enjoyed the ROTC experience, some of my best friends came from there, and it felt really great to be involved in something like that during college. At least in my unit, we had a great sense of commraderie and team work that I would not have traded for anything (PS, it was way better than the fraternity I was in).

You can also do what I did. But if you ask me, I wouldn't do it again! I went to a "normal" college for two years while repeatedly trying to get accepted at the USAF Academy. My Congressman was an ass, so I finally got a nomination on the third try. Your school is paid for, and they have gobs of pilot training slots every year (except maybe 94-96 from recent memory). I only finished in maybe the top 70%, but still got to go fly. Fantastic education and certain job security in both civil & mil job sectors if it turns out you lose your Class 1 physical. That diploma is worth a lot to most employers.

All of this being said, I would do the Guard/Reserves if I did it all over again, but that was some magic secret that nobody in my "generation" seemed to know about at the time. I'm in the ANG now, and you can't beat it.

And one more thing--with the ANG/Res you know what you're going to fly after UPT. With Active Duty, life is a box of chocolates...

Probably not. But I still wouldn't do it the same way again!

Yes, it's too late.

Now it's "managing" the system and letting the "magic" work for ya

Active duty wouldn't bother me in the least bit if I got to fly fighters or bombers, or if the chances were very good that I would be able to.

I still haven't gotten a definite answer on how the selection is made for what you fly for active duty.

I have heard all of the benefits of reserves before, but I don't know if my mcchord or fort lewis have fighter squadrons, I thought only c130s?

I live in washington state.

Well this part is pretty easy:
1) Needs of the service
2) Performance
3) Personal choice

USMCFLYR

thanks usmc flyer! and all the others. All of this is very helpful. I am still weighing the advantages to the air force and civilian flying. My hours so far and family friends will be able to help me get ahead in commercial flying, but flying high performance airplanes seems like an experience that I might regret later in life if I don't do it.

Ft Lewis being Army has no AF flying units. McChord is all C-17s, both reserve and active. Portland though, does have ANG F-15s, as well as Reserve Helos (can't remember if they lost their Hercs or not)

no helo's at pdx. was rescue 130's and 60's, then 135s, no closed. Only the ANG 15s are there. Fairchild has ANG 135's (associate). McChord has c-17s. That's it for WA.

Ok, so I've gotten a lot of great replies, and I'm sorry if this question has already been answered, but its hard to analyze all of this, ha.

What would be the best plan for me that would give me the greatest odds of flying some sort of combat aircraft (fighter or bomber)? Reserves sound great, but if active duty will yield better odds of flying fighters, then it might be military life for me. :)

I would try every guard and reserve unit that flies fighters/bombers. Baseops.net is a good place to look for contacts. Guard units get their own pilot training slots, the reserve units all compete for that year's reserve training slots. Stay away from active duty. even the guys finishing 38's are not guaranteed a fighter/bomber, unless the pc12 or uav's count in you book. good luck!

Sounds like you're set on going USAF, but if you are truly interested in military flying, you should not rule out the USN/USMC. I can't speak for the USAF ROTC but as for the Navy a good way to explore your options is to go to a univ with an ROTC unit, affiliate with the unit on a non-scholarship basis for your 1st year and see what you think. At least in my day, you could "play Navy" for a year as a freshman ROTC puke and opt out if you did not like it after that 1st year. Day 1 of our sophomore year we all had sign on the dotted line, but freshman year was a freebie - no strings attached. Not sure if that's still the case. As for schools in the Pac NW, U of W, U of Idaho and Oregon State U all have NROTC units. There may be others, but those I'm sure about.

I'm from WA, went to Oregon State, and am finishing up with 20 years of flying A-6's and EA-6B's out of Whidbey Island. Not exactly "fighters" but tactical carrier-based jets none the less. Also, the 1st EA-18G is now at Whidbey. Still has the new car smell and is much more fighter-ish than anything else the Navy has in the NW.

Mink

Well, although it is slightly easier to get an Active Duty pilot slot, once you get to UPT, your chances of getting a fighter goes down (assuming all things equal).

If you get hired by a Guard or Reserve fighter unit, you are guaranteed to fly their airframe, as long as you finish in the top 50% of your class during the T-6 phase...if you don't get in the top 50%, you could actually wash out of UPT unless they can find a Heavy unit to sponsor you.

If you go as an Active Duty student, then you're in a straight-up cut-throat competition with all of the other kids to get into the T-38 (fighter/bomber) track. You will need to finish in the top 25%-30% (ish) during the T-6 phase to get T-38's, otherwise you will go Heavy's. Once you get to T-38's, it is still possible for you to get a Bomber instead of a fighter, or even UAV's or T-6/T-38 Instructor Pilot.

You may even decide that Heavy's are the way to go. One guy in my class wanted to switch to T-1's after a month in T-38's...no dice. He got B-52's.

As far as AFROTC goes, if you are on scholarship you can do the first year of ROTC and see if you like it or not, if you quit before the 1st day of Sophomore year then you were not obligated anything and you did not have to pay back any part of your scholarship. If you were not on scholarship, I think up until your first day of class after field training (which is usually during the summer between sophomore and junior year). That way you can decide if Active Duty and ROTC are the routes you want to go and if not, you can get out and wait till you graduate and then hit up guard units. Let me tell you, you are in a good position, doing research at the right time.

Additionally, lots of guys who started AFROTC after freshman year had a harder time getting a pilot slot, so start doing ROTC from the first day of class, it is not impossible, just harder if you are competing against guys who the Commander knows from day 1 vs you being around a year later.

I also want to add that the year I went up for a pilot slot in ROTC, only 56% of the people across the nation in AFROTC competing for a pilot slot got a slot. From my University everyone got a slot except for 4 cadets. Three of those 4 cadets got navigator slots and ended up getting upgraded to pilot later. Two of the guys who had pilot slots got medically disqualified after going to the medical at Brooks (1 was me, doh).

Also, once you get to UPT, you have to compete for a T-38 slot if you want to fly fighter/bomber aircraft. You have to be ready to accept a T-1 (or T-44, or helicopter) slot. But hey, you may get to UPT and decide you don't want to fly fighters any more, which does happen. If you go Guard, you don't have to compete for the T-38 slot if you get hired by a fighter unit (but you still have to be competent enough to fly a T-38).

If you go ROTC and get medically DQ'ed, you have to be fine with doing a desk job for 4 years. If you get medically DQ'ed from flying in the guard, you can do the military stuff on the weekends with the occasional deployment, and if you really enjoy it go for an AGR position, meanwhile doing your flying as your fulltime job. Looking back, I would have gone into the Guard and after getting medically DQ'ed, i wouldn't currently be stuck in the AOC, haha. But it would have been hard to trade in the experience I had in ROTC, and my current deployment (to Colombia, not the desert) has actually been a great experience.

I agree with this approach. A guy in my unit is doing it this way, crew chief in the unit trying to judge if he would like to be a pilot in the guard unit and also doing the ROTC thing in college. You keep your doors open, get amazing experience and a little time in service. Not to mention the free tuition and extra cash from the GI Bill is nice to have.

Would active duty bother you if you didn't fly fighters? Thing about the Navy is the primary factor selecting out of primary flight training is going to be the Navy's needs. A student I flew with not to long ago just finished and finished at the top, Commodores list with a 62 NSS (the Navy Standard Score is the grade given to students at the end of primary and advanced flight training. A 50 NSS is the middle and anything above is considered good and is required to select tailhook out of primary). He didn't get any of his choices...tailhook, props, E6's and was rewarded helo's for all his hard word. Thats the Navy way. Want to be a fighter pilot, going in the Navy is not a sure bet. The majority of all Navy pilots are helo pilots. Just heard it's over the 50% mark. It's about 70% in the Marine Corps.

Agreed, there are no guarantees, but as was posted earlier, the pecking order is based on:

1. Needs of the Navy
2. How well you did in school/training
3. Your desires
4. When in doubt, see #1

Yes, something like 2/3 of all Navy pilots are helo and P-3 drivers. Just the way the numbers work out when you have single seat jets and multi-piloted helos and props.

Unlike what was posted above about the USAF pilot slot process, if you're medically qualified, meet the grades and there are needs for pilots, you will be very sure to get your seat in flight school (the fighter or prop or helo selection comes later). In fact, I have heard there are not enough USNA and ROTC grads selecting aviation right now due to the long service committment (something like 7 or 8 years AFTER getting your wings...?)

SPOT ON...

You guys are going to love this! Here in SUPT land it was just announced that starting in fiscal year '09 (starts October 1st), the USAF will send TRIPLE DIGIT SUPT grads to UAVs. I kid you not.

Here at Columbus we were told that we will start the ball rolling by assigning 1 T-38 grad and 1 T-1 grad to UAVs starting with class 09-01 (they graduate in early October). I'm guessing the same thing will happen at Vance and Laughlin. I have not heard how many T-38 grads from Sheppard will be UAV'd. Anyone else know?

I'm telling you greenshoes, if you go active duty USAF you are foolish. We have 2 guard kids right now here at Columbus in T-38 training. They will finish SUPT, go to IFF, off to F-16 training, back to their guard unit two years full-time, then they will be part-timers. Yes, their squadron may be turned into a UAV squadron someday but highly unlikely unless there is another DoD BRAC.

Yet another kick in the junk. Glad I am not going through right about now.

Pretend I haven't been near a UPT base in about 18 years. What's a "triple digit SUPT grad". :D

I think that means 100 or more UPT grads...i.e. triple digits.

How many UPT grads are there total per year?

About 900-1,000 per year.

Correct, sorry I was unclear (darn publik skool edyoocation). Could be 100 grads, could be 200, we haven't been told total numbers yet.

Yeah I heard it's going to be 10-30% of all 09 classes so if 900-1000 graduate each year then 100-300 sounds like it will be possible. Heck an IP told me the other day that he read on the portal somewhere that in FY09 the Air Force needs a total of 550 new UAV "operators".

Looks like I've made up my mind about going Tones or 38's. Don't get me wrong it has always been my dream to be a fighter pilot and this has been a hard pill to swallow, but 1 UAV out of a class of 2-3 in 38's is too much of a chance for me to take considering the rest of what has been dropping in 38's isn't even that great (U-28's, PC-12's, NSA's, etc.). I'm going to be perfectly happy with my Tone and then I'd really like to go Tankers or FAIP.

So yeah if I had to do it all over again I'd definitely try to get on with a Reserve/Guard Fighter unit, but if I wasn't able to do that then I would still go Active Duty. Just wearing that flight suit every day, getting to fly whatever it may be (KC-10's, 135's, F-16's, C-17's, etc.), serving my country, and hopefully one day having those wings on my chest is enough for me to say it's worth it. Not to mention flying the T-6 is quite possibly the coolest thing I have ever done.

I did have my Formation Solo today so I'm pretty pumped about that so maybe you should catch me at a different time and I might give you a different opinion of UPT.:D

Congrats FLY6584,
One of the things that distinguish military flying from civilian is the oppurtunity to learn how to fly formation. Even having flown single seat for almost 20 years now, I still remember the thrill of flying solo formation in a Tweet the first time. It never gets old.
Good luck to you man.

I second the Congrats - FLY6584

Think hard about skipping the 38. As a former 38 IP I have to say the 38 is still my favorite jet (even after flying F-16's and B-1's). And don't discount the whole FAIP idea. Many old FAIP friends of mine (now in all manner of jets from fighter to heavies) say their FAIP tour was their favorite assignment (They just didn't reliaze it at the time). That being said flying a fighter is something I think you have to do if you have the chance. I gave up that chance once and fought ten years to get a second chance and I was extremely lucky I did - most don't.

Back to the original topic this thread was started on. I apologize now if I'm rehashing others info - was too lazy to read all the pages.

The guard is definetly where you want to end up- we get mondays off (in exchange for one sat/sun - do you need any others reasons beside that)

I went the AD route, now in the Gard (Go Gard!). I tend to side with the folks who recommend the guard. Going the AD route is just as risky these days with the UAV's/ALO/Staff tours, and all the bad deals the AD gets. Just do your research about the units you are interested in. I wouldn't let the BRAC thing scare you too much, sure it might happen but then you can usually just get picked up by another unit. We currently are like five part-timers short and looking at many guys whose units are on the choppin block.

Losing a good deal
 

Yeah, too bad everybody in UPT doesn't get to fly the T-38, like in the old days. Did it really save that much money to switch to the two-track system?

Don't know but it's saved a lot of washouts...weak swimmers are let through since they are going to crew aircraft. Not a knock on heavy drivers, just my observation on guys who wouldn't have made it through without the split track because they never would have soloed the -38.

Saved tons of hours on the T-38 fleet, too.