Morale killer
#71
They are a bit more DA than I was on the AC130 or anyone is in a fast mover.
#72
The only reason a fighter cockpit is not considered "DA" is because of the recent success we've had in avoiding significant combat losses. I guarantee that Bud Day, Robbie Risner and the hundreds of POWs as well as KIA Vietnam fighter pilots would argue that their cockpits were very "DA".
"All deployed soldiers, men and women, are serving “in harm’s way.” But even without a “front line,” the missions of direct ground combat units have not changed. Infantry, armor, and Special Operations Forces attack the enemy with deliberate offensive action under fire. These fighting battalions, and support units that “collocate” with them 100% of the time, are required by Defense Department regulations to be all male.
If the Army wants to change the “collocation rule,” the Secretary of Defense must approve and formally report the change to Congress approximately three months (30 legislative days) in advance. The law also requires an analysis of proposed changes on young women’s exemption from Selective Service obligations. "
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,707
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From: Permanently scarred
In an aircraft there is no DIRECT contact with enemy forces ...unless you land, get out, and stab them or shoot them with your 9mm. The CV-22 in AFSOC is Spec Ops....the Pave mafia might be keeping women out...but there are other forces at work..You don't see women on ODA or SEAL teams do you? The Paves and CV22s carry those guys in....engage gomers on the LZ, pull pitch and leave.
They are a bit more DA than I was on the AC130 or anyone is in a fast mover.
They are a bit more DA than I was on the AC130 or anyone is in a fast mover.
direct action. Short-duration strikes and other small-scale offensive actions conducted as a special operation in hostile, denied, or politically sensitive environments and which employ specialized military capabilities to seize, destroy, capture, exploit, recover, or damage designated targets. Direct action differs from conventional offensive actions in the level of physical and political risk, operational techniques, and the degree of discriminate and precise use of force to achieve specific objectives.
I've seen gunships, A-10s, preds, etc, work with ground SOF on DA missions. I don't know what else you would want to call it. My point is that this is the kind of flak the pave mafia puts up to keep their boys from having to integrate (read: SF, SEALs, Rangers, etc are a different story). Eventually that line of BS that they're like SOF/conventional ground teams will no longer fly and they can catch up with the rest of the AF and learn to keep their coin purse shaving fetish in check when the women are around.

#74
Major thread jack, but I beg to differ. I'm not a patch wearer who forgets to check all her ACMs to see if they have warheads in them or not, but I don't see any mention of a requirement for ground contact in JP 1-02 or JP 3-05 when it comes to defining DA. No disrespect to the outstanding and very impressive pave low guys we have serving, but are 53 crews now routinely getting out of their helos to hunt down the enemy? From JP 3-05:
direct action. Short-duration strikes and other small-scale offensive actions conducted as a special operation in hostile, denied, or politically sensitive environments and which employ specialized military capabilities to seize, destroy, capture, exploit, recover, or damage designated targets. Direct action differs from conventional offensive actions in the level of physical and political risk, operational techniques, and the degree of discriminate and precise use of force to achieve specific objectives.
I've seen gunships, A-10s, preds, etc, work with ground SOF on DA missions. I don't know what else you would want to call it. My point is that this is the kind of flak the pave mafia puts up to keep their boys from having to integrate (read: SF, SEALs, Rangers, etc are a different story). Eventually that line of BS that they're like SOF/conventional ground teams will no longer fly and they can catch up with the rest of the AF and learn to keep their coin purse shaving fetish in check when the women are around.

Anything else that flies different folks or flies higher...go for it.
and BTW....I was there in the HOA when they started the shaving crap....there were MANY women around. One was the first shaved...then the others were offended when the dudes......errr...ugh.
#75
It'll be interesting to see how the mission evolves with women now that the PC-12/U-28/NSA programs with AFSOC are online and recruiting regularly. They risk direct contact, bring shooters and operators in and out of the fight, and are in the thick of it. I know women there now.
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