Wow. A lot of discussion.
My 2 cents...if you were one of the Lts that worked for me, I would kick you in the butt and tell you to go fly fighters, period.
I asked the same question 21 years ago and a smart FAIP told me to bite my tongue and don't speak of being a FAIP again and go fly fighters. Best advice I ever took.
Maybe you will be the FAIP that passes that same advice three years from now...

Great discussion all around.

Here's the turd in the punch bowl comment.

The needs of the AF trumps everything.

We all know folks who tried to punch the right holes to line up their careers only to have their plans change in an instant. We all know folks who looked only towards getting the best assignment they could get and did just fine.

Don't get used to the status quo, because once you get any semblance of feeling comfortable, the rug can get pulled out from under you. Keep all your options open.

Good luck.

A moment of silence for theloss of EDDF
 

Since you mentioned Germany and you were probably around for the "old days", I would like to call for a moment of silence for EDDF, Steak on a Rock, O'Dwyers, O'Rileys, The Holiday Inn, Pure Plat....., stair stepping, and all other places through out the city.

A story I think I've told, but bears repeating.

I had to write an OPR for a 22 guy, good dude, kind of guy you don't mind taking the time for. Anyway, I write a good product, send it up the chain and forget about it. Finally works it's way back to my inbox for signature. Imagine my surprise when the closing line begins with the words "Pure Platinum!"

I almost choked. Further proof I'm not in AMC anymore.

Tear........

Don't forget Low Fly 7 and the "Meter Bar" in K-Town.

Never a miss it..
 

I leave this weekend and plan on getting to the meter bar 1 time in the next week. A site not to be missed.

Pirep to those doing EDDF and ETAR fond memories......
Catch a mission/flight or train it To Warsaw (EPWA) or Krakow (EPKK), Poland ASAP. WIE UFN. Just about need to wait until summer as the days shorten... (think Marion Square in the summer at KCHS). But they have tunnels as needed in the winter. Don't mess it up, they like us. AMMV

Sorry for the thead drift, not.... A FAIP won't know this yet.

Okay, here's an ex-FAIP who bows in wonder to your OST planning abilities. I've seen some boondogalicious weekend trips, but Poland? How the heck do you pull that off?

I went to Warsaw once, min crew rest but it was still a wonderful trip. Would love to go back.

I consider my night/day job Sq forward recon/RON intel for OSTs and msn picks (as if either happens much). Haven't been there in a grey jet. Thanks for the second opinion, though!

Every FAIP I knew when I was in UPT has left the Air Force. Every FAIP I knew that came to my active duty unit from UPT has left the Air Force.

My point was that as a FAIP, you meet the airline minimums very early on and in doing so, they build PIC time (or in case of a fighter guy more quality PIC time) faster than everyone else.

-Fatty

Just go to "Hollywood" and all you're bad memories will disappear.

-Fatty

It sounds like making FAIPs might not be in the best interest of the AF :)
Why do you consider the UPT PIC time higher quality time than MWS PIC?

USMCFLYR

Man those were the days. I fondly remember as a new guy being told how much this sucks and the ESIDS were where it's at. I'll always remeber those days drinking more than I probably should at O'Dwyers and eating a big ol Doner to top the night off. If you haven't been there lately, the entire base has been leveled by the Germans. A couple buildings are there but, the stage building is no more.

I know a few FAIPs still in, but had no idea that so many left.

Far as the PIC time, not sure I understand his intent either, but I'll make a stab at it. In 3 years of FAIPing I got 1500 hours, majority IP with the rest primary. No secondary, no other. Went MWS and upgraded through AC and IP quickly, minimized sec/other time. If you compared me to a homegrown guy, they spent the years I was logging IP time logging a lot of sec/other.

So it's not that FAIP PIC is better, you just get more of it faster.

Don't take anything what I said as a recommendation. I think there's huge benefit to being a Copilot and growing up in an airplane. I also think FAIPing solely to build hours in some ten year plan... I just don't think that leads to happiness.

To piggy back on some of these posts I think the desire to FAIP rests on your career goals and if your're on APC you most likely want to go commercial sometime. I'm a Guard guy but one of my best AD friends FAIP'd T-1s, built over 1k PIC, got paid to leave the AF and got on w/ SWA. Call him lucky or smart and obviously not a career dude but that has to be about the quickest way to a Major Airline. Even if you are a career dude, I understand you usually have a good chance of flying your MWS of choice after FAIPing.

I'm currently a FAIP and this is NOT true!!! At least not these days.

Really? Sorry to hear that. Do you not still do a wishlist of 3 MWS's? How does it work now?

I thought I would throw this out there....

The wait at Army Flight school is about 8 months to start. Kind of a lot like being on casual status for you Flight-Level Flyers. When asked, a lot of the answers to the problems was an IP shortage. I am thinking about piping up about the Army doing some type of FAIP program to minimize the wait and get operational pilots to a unit.

Out of a class of 26, I would say 4 would be FAIP'd after tracking to teach in either their MWS or the trainer since LSI has such a hard time filling IP slots.

Thoughts? Anyone heard of the Army trying this in the past?

To Faip or not to faip?? Been there, done that, have all the T-shirts, especially from hooks. My absolute favorite assignment and gave me over 1K hrs jet instr time. (never hurts) I was you 10 years ago (Am I really that old) and found it to be an outstanding assignment. After reading all these posts, the best advice that I can give is set your priorities. If family is #1, awesome! Do not let someone tell you otherwise, hold your ground! No one here can re-arrange "your" priorities. Do whats best for you and your family right now. The Air Force changes everyday, and does not Keep it's word on future promises... if you take this assigment, then etc. If you try and game the system this way, you'll get bitten! Continue to research with this pool of wide range aviators and make the decision that fits best with your goals. Thanks for your service!!!

I feel compelled to reply, I rarely do. My executive summary would be this: "Choose to do what you will enjoy doing - if that's not teaching and flying - dont FAIP."
I was a FAIP - it was my #1 choice out of pilot training. I would not change a second of it. Here is my FAIP experience - I think it worked out.

T-37 IP: 1300 hours
T-6 IP: 350 hours
T-38 IP: 600 hours
U-2 (IP duty was in a Camaro or GTO): 750 hours

So, I left AD last fall after 9 years and as an O-3 (Maj select) with 3,000 hours - all as PIC and about 70% Instructor. I also got paid about 107K to leave. Timing was, truly, everything.

Oddly enough, I had never planned to leave early, or fly for the airlines. I just did what I knew I would enjoy, and would therefore do well. I absolutely loved to teach and fly. So, I chose to FAIP and I went to work smiling everyday. When it came assignment time, I chose to fly the U-2 because those dudes fly their butts off in two completely different airplanes, and all over the world. Again, I went to work with a smile on my face (maybe not the time I had to take a sh** while in the spacesuit and with 9 hours to go until landing, but, most of the time I was smiling.) The decision to get out was the most difficult of my life - but, I was enjoying my time off more (ie, airlines) and knew that the flying and teaching thing was what I really enjoyed the most (ie, the reserves.) I am starting a Navy T-45 flying gig here in the next month or so and plan to keep smiling there when not flying for Delta.

My point to all of this is: there are no guaruntees, few things will stay the same. Choose now to do what you will enjoy doing - you will do well, and the rest will fall into place.

Or, I could be furloughed next summer and flie chapter 13 trying to make ends meet as a part-timer for the Navy.............. in that case, disregard everything.

Oops...deleted

I don't. But, as a PIC of a UPT jet, you are an instructor. In a MWS (C-17, F-15, etc), you may not be an instructor. Every airline I applied too considered instructor PIC more favorable than regular PIC time. For the guys who have a FAIP job, they have more IP time and PIC than their non-FAIP buddies.

I'm just saying, if you want an edge in the civilian world, being a FAIP is a good deal.

-Fatty

I hope this is true! I've been instructing for quite some time now. Let's hope the rest of the aviation industry likes instructional time.

I guess my question here was about the person who joins the military to be a FAIP. Going around my current squadron recently I have run into a few SERGRADS as we call them. Not a one of them *joined* the military to instruct first tour. Everyone of them wanted to move onto a fleet squadron, but for some circumstance they were afforded the opportunity to stay and instruct. Sometimes it was a great deal because the waits for the RAG/FRS class might have been a year long! In 18 months - two of the former SERGRADS reported getting 700 hrs of turbine PIC time. Not bad eh?

USMCFLYR

-Fatty[/quote]